Poor Lebanese people..

[JayDiddy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xlImx9akIM&e

God bless them...

[ShaE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xlImx9akIM&e

God bless them...
HOLOCAUST??? They can't be serious. Holocaust my ass.

The word, Holocaust, derives from Greek words, meaning complete destruction, usually by fire. By the end of the 17th century, the word came to mean a great slaughter or massacre. It is now used to describe the genocide against the Jews in Europe by the Nazis.


There have been civilian losses in Lebanon...hundreds correct? Not to be insensitive but " great slaughter"...are you fucking kidding me?
Regardless of whether I was pro-Israel or not...that clip was a bunch of shit. Every side could put together a bit of horribly disturbing images..it's not just the Lebanese.

[Studz]

HOLOCAUST??? They can't be serious. Holocaust my ass.

The word, Holocaust, derives from Greek words, meaning complete destruction, usually by fire. By the end of the 17th century, the word came to mean a great slaughter or massacre. It is now used to describe the genocide against the Jews in Europe by the Nazis.


There have been civilian losses in Lebanon...hundreds correct? Not to be insensitive but " great slaughter"...are you fucking kidding me?
Regardless of whether I was pro-Israel or not...that clip was a bunch of shit. Every side could put together a bit of horribly disturbing images..it's not just the Lebanese.

Shan this shows ur complete biast towards the lebanese side. Complete distruction by fire. In my opinon if 10 people die with fire of complete distruction thats what the isrealis are doing comepletely destroying inncoent civilians while they attack hizbollah. close to 500 have died, not counting the places they cant get to in the south and in this video it shows the complete distruction.

Isreal also suffers from this crises. But for you to turn a blind eye on this is just heartless. Shit u see on American TV is not 1/10 of what they show on arab TV shit breaks the heart. As much as being in a bunker is hard and i wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy if u see the pain that the lebeanses are goign through. And you not caring about them cause they are dark or the woman is wearing a scarf on her head is wrong.

WIth great power, comes great responsbility and isreal is not acting responsibly.

[ShaE]

Shan this shows ur complete biast towards the lebanese side. Complete distruction by fire. In my opinon if 10 people die with fire of complete distruction thats what the isrealis are doing comepletely destroying inncoent civilians while they attack hizbollah. close to 500 have died, not counting the places they cant get to in the south and in this video it shows the complete distruction.

Isreal also suffers from this crises. But for you to turn a blind eye on this is just heartless. Shit u see on American TV is not 1/10 of what they show on arab TV shit breaks the heart. As much as being in a bunker is hard and i wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy if u see the pain that the lebeanses are goign through. And you not caring about them cause they are dark or the woman is wearing a scarf on her head is wrong.

WIth great power, comes great responsbility and isreal is not acting responsibly.

Leo, you know me better than that, I'm not at all biased. I don't hate arabs , or muslims, just terrorists. I am WELL aware Lebanon is not chock full of terrorist civilians. I also know very well not to take everything i see/ read at face value, that's a given.

What I don't like, is calling this a holocaust. It undermines the seriousness of the term. Where in the world do you get my turning a blind eye TO ANYTHING? In no way have I discredited the devastation on BOTH sides in some way or another..I don't think Israel is innocent, and I don't think all it's enemies are guilty.

I don't think "complete destruction & death by fire" applies so I don't think the death in lebanon right now qualifies as a holocaust. A holocaust is on a GRAND , total scale..a few MILLION , hundreds of thousands maybe, same way you can't call killing 200 people GENOCIDE. It just doesn't apply. I hate propaganda...and I think using the term is an exaggeration to bolster it. I'd say the SAME THING if lebanon had attacked Israel killing 500 Jews, and they started screaming HOLOCAUST.

[Studz]

Leo, you know me better than that, I'm not at all biased. I don't hate arabs , or muslims, just terrorists. I am WELL aware Lebanon is not chock full of terrorist civilians. I also know very well not to take everything i see/ read at face value, that's a given.

What I don't like, is calling this a holocaust. It undermines the seriousness of the term. Where in the world do you get my turning a blind eye TO ANYTHING? In no way have I discredited the devastation on BOTH sides in some way or another..I don't think Israel is innocent, and I don't think all it's enemies are guilty.

I don't think "complete destruction & death by fire" applies so I don't think the death in lebanon right now qualifies as a holocaust. A holocaust is on a GRAND , total scale..a few MILLION , hundreds of thousands maybe, same way you can't call killing 200 people GENOCIDE. It just doesn't apply. I hate propaganda...and I think using the term is an exaggeration to bolster it. I'd say the SAME THING if lebanon had attacked Israel killing 500 Jews, and they started screaming HOLOCAUST.

I know you Shan, Thats why i was so taken back by this post. Knowing that this came from you. But i do agree that this is biast. But so is what u see on western TV. But I see ur point, but 6 million jews died in the hollocaust. Do we have to wait for the isrealis kill 6 million lebanese before we call it what it is. This colaleteral damage bullshit is not flying with me anymore, when more civilians are dying than hizbollah militants, doesnt work for me. ALot of innocent civilians are dying. Isreal is acting irrseponsbily.

[ShaE]

I know you Shan, Thats why i was so taken back by this post. Knowing that this came from you. But i do agree that this is biast. But so is what u see on western TV. But I see ur point, but 6 million jews died in the hollocaust. Do we have to wait for the isrealis kill 6 million lebanese before we call it what it is. This colaleteral damage bullshit is not flying with me anymore, when more civilians are dying than hizbollah militants, doesnt work for me. ALot of innocent civilians are dying. Isreal is acting irrseponsbily.
I agree, and of course I'm not saying it's ok merely b/c I wouldn't classify it a "holocaust". Killing civilians is wrong, whether its a million or one...I just don't like when things get distorted for propaganda's sake. I don't think any of us does b/c we're really not interested in that, we don't really buy what we're spoon fed. Regardless of our views, I think we're all very critically thinking people. :agree

Like I said, if the jews were saying holocaust, I'd call bullshit as well. I think allowing hezbollah to operate in Lebanon was irresponsible, just as I think the level of brute force Israel is using is QUITE a lot. But LIKE I understand some of the reasons why the people tolerated hezbollah, I also understand some of the reasons why israel is reacting how it is.

I cannot take an excessively firm stance b/c i DO SEE both sides of the coin.

[Defekted]

Heartbreaking ....

[JayDiddy]

Lets not argue about the political views or the words in the video. Just watch the images and the suffering. Thats why I posted it, not for the views expressed in the video.

[Bekim...]

Lets not argue about the political views or the words in the video. Just watch the images and the suffering. Thats why I posted it, not for the views expressed in the video.

here watch this video of suffering - tell lebanon to get rid of the terrorists and maybe they wont get bombed


http://www.yuairwar.com/images/wtc911.jpg

[Studz]

here watch this video of suffering - tell lebanon to get rid of the terrorists and maybe they wont get bombed

[/IMG]

albanians are more responsible for 9/11 than than lebanese. Stop listening to ur isreali gf who try to put the resistance in lebanon and palestine with alqeada. One has nothing to do with the other. And if you keep entertainig this thought u illustrate u have the intelectual capapbility of geroge bush (meaning your a moron)

Whats going on in lebanon is a crime, commited by isreal. 53 civilians killed 37 of which are children.

[drumaboy]

yeah, but hezbollah is a terrorist organization, living, breeding amongst the civilians AND supported, voted in, by the civilians, and sorry, to kidnap two soldiers IS an act of war, every death in lebanon stems from that action, did israel just start launching an attack out of nowhere? UHMMMMMMMMMM, NO!......you reap what you sow, period.

[drumaboy]

ANNNNNNNNNNNNND....it's hard to negotiate cease-fire's when the lebanese prime minister supports terrorist organizations, calls for jihads, then rejects talks with Rice

"Out of respect for the souls of our innocent martyrs and the remains of our children buried under the rubble of Qana, we scream out to our fellow Lebanese and to other Arab brothers and to the whole world to stand united in the face of the Israeli war criminals," Siniora said.

Siniora called for an immediate, unconditional cease-fire and an international probe, and rejected planned talks with Rice.

After the announcement, Rice canceled her planned visit to Beirut.

[jameznyhc]

I agree, and of course I'm not saying it's ok merely b/c I wouldn't classify it a "holocaust". Killing civilians is wrong, whether its a million or one...I just don't like when things get distorted for propaganda's sake. I don't think any of us does b/c we're really not interested in that, we don't really buy what we're spoon fed. Regardless of our views, I think we're all very critically thinking people. :agree

Like I said, if the jews were saying holocaust, I'd call bullshit as well. I think allowing hezbollah to operate in Lebanon was irresponsible, just as I think the level of brute force Israel is using is QUITE a lot. But LIKE I understand some of the reasons why the people tolerated hezbollah, I also understand some of the reasons why israel is reacting how it is.

I cannot take an excessively firm stance b/c i DO SEE both sides of the coin.


Israel is defending itself and your sounding like propaganda now..look ive read many of your posts we disagree but your very intelligent and you know your shit..why are you sugarcoating now?? Israel is defending itself! they did not start this war ..You feel israel is really using QUITE alot of force..I dont believe you for a second..Stand by what you said originally ..And just read the thread beck posted ..when does israel or when did israel ever attack a muslim or arab country?? never and you know it

Ok

[ShaE]

Israel is defending itself and your sounding like propaganda now..look ive read many of your posts we disagree but your very intelligent and you know your shit..why are you sugarcoating now?? Israel is defending itself! they did not start this war ..You feel israel is really using QUITE alot of force..I dont believe you for a second..Stand by what you said originally ..And just read the thread beck posted ..when does israel or when did israel ever attack a muslim or arab country?? never and you know it

Ok
I don't sugarcoat, I also don't enjoy being narrowminded simply b/c I happen to side more with one group. I am pro-Israel but that doesn't mean I think everything and anything they do is CORRECT or that I don't see validity in others' arguments. I'm not anti-Lebanese, anti-civilian, or anti-Arab simply b/c i think israel's fundamental points are right. Nothing is ever that black and white , and if you think it is, you have more thinking to do.

I agree Israel is defending itself, but that doesn't mean I can't say the force being used in it's defense is shockingly brutal. These issues aren't simple and I can't turn a blind eye to perfectly good points on the opposite side. I don't blame israel for taking action, I can however acknowledge that the level of action they've taken is QUITE serious and a bit more over the top than I think anyone would've expected.

I don't mince words, I speak my mind..and that's my mind.

[ShaE]

yeah, but hezbollah is a terrorist organization, living, breeding amongst the civilians AND supported, voted in, by the civilians, and sorry, to kidnap two soldiers IS an act of war, every death in lebanon stems from that action, did israel just start launching an attack out of nowhere? UHMMMMMMMMMM, NO!......you reap what you sow, period.


I agree that people are mostly responsible for the actions of those within their country. Here in america, it's written into our constitution that we have the DUTY to oppose and remove the gov't if it's tyrannical- now that is outdated, things don't exactly happen THAT WAY now, but the principle is clear. The people run things, and the people cannot turn a blind eye when shit hits the fan and point at the politicians. We put them there, and if they got there in corrupt fashion it was OUR NEGLIGENCE and ignorance that allowed such a system to develop to where that could happen.

If you, as a citizen, do not take responsibility for what is going on in your country and government, you cannot claim innocent when things turn bad. You're not doing your job; your job is to educate yourself, be proactive, and get involved. Not sit back, lament problems, then scream victim when you're fucked up gov't fucks you. I have incredible sympathy for the lebanese or any other civilians that have terrorist organizations flourishing in their nations, running things, or intimidating them..HOWEVER...it's your country. If you can't do something about it, if your people cannot unite to take BACK what you want and oust those you don't, perhaps you have things to work on. Gov'ts are overturned, factions eliminated, revolutions fought...by people who WANTED it badly enough and united themselves behind a cause. If you sit back and allow terrorists to operate not only within your nation, but within it's GOV'T...you are not entirely innocent.

I'm not saying this justifies civilians being targeted , I'm saying people ( including Americans) have to take more responsibility for what's going on around them in their leadership and stop crying to the world when things get out of hand. It's like the spoiled child mentality..can't do anything for themselves, it's easier to whine about it than face it.

[Bekim...]

albanians are more responsible for 9/11 than than lebanese. Stop listening to ur isreali gf who try to put the resistance in lebanon and palestine with alqeada. One has nothing to do with the other. And if you keep entertainig this thought u illustrate u have the intelectual capapbility of geroge bush (meaning your a moron)

Whats going on in lebanon is a crime, commited by isreal. 53 civilians killed 37 of which are children.


"you're a moron" not your. dont be mad because everyone hates arab scumbags... and YOU'RE the fucking moron for thinking that these organizations are not connected. oh and studs you wanna call names bro? you can say that to my face we'll see who the moron is. Tell your dirty country to stop supporting terrorists and maybe we will tell israel to stop DESTROYING it.

oh and those 37 children.. i'm sure they would have grown up to become terrorists anyway so good riddens.

tell your fucking prime minester to wake the fuck up before israel really starts to fuck you up.

[ShaE]

Guys this is ridiculous. Gotta keep shit civil in here or it's gonna be pretty fucking boring when everyone's got everyone on ignore or just fkin fights.

We all have our views..bek I defended u w/ that picture b/c I didn't think it's to be taken seriously. It's not rite calling leo ( studz ) arabl jerkoff just b/c he doesn't agree w/ you. He doesn't hate jews or israel...and you shouldn't hate arabs, they're not all terrorists. Neither of you is stupid and shouldn't be judging each other that way.

[Bekim...]

kids saying albanians are more responsible, LOL who's the stupid one?

[Defekted]

ANNNNNNNNNNNNND....it's hard to negotiate cease-fire's when the lebanese prime minister supports terrorist organizations, calls for jihads, then rejects talks with Rice

"Out of respect for the souls of our innocent martyrs and the remains of our children buried under the rubble of Qana, we scream out to our fellow Lebanese and to other Arab brothers and to the whole world to stand united in the face of the Israeli war criminals," Siniora said.

Siniora called for an immediate, unconditional cease-fire and an international probe, and rejected planned talks with Rice.

After the announcement, Rice canceled her planned visit to Beirut.

Siniora is far from a jihaist, lol..... shows how much you know about whats going on over in Lebanon......


"Out of respect for the souls of our innocent martyrs and the remains of our children buried under the rubble of Qana"

Yet another TRAGIC mistake by the IDF, shame shame, how many tragic mistakes can we allow go by, we being the American government, when we are trying to be an honest broker? lol, biggest joke ever..... All innocent and children, no hezbullah.... 60 people in one shot...... awesome, drumaboy, we just reeped what we sowed...... how touching,

keep pushing that mentality man, it shows how racist your feelings are, just some dirka dirka's in training right? they would have been problems for Israel in 20 years anyway, we just avoided future terrorists.....

"we scream out to our fellow Lebanese and to other Arab brothers and to the whole world to stand united in the face of the Israeli war criminals,"

Damn fucking right...... what Prime Minister in the FUCKING WORLD would say anything less when every new bombing by Israel is outdoing the previous in damage and civilian loss.....

"Siniora called for an immediate, unconditional cease-fire and an international probe, and rejected planned talks with Rice.

After the announcement, Rice canceled her planned visit to Beirut "

Absolutely, to even think about going to Beirut, to look at any Lebanese in the face, and say its for "talks", while ITS BECAUSE OF AMERICA, AND ONLY AMERICA, that this war as been going on so long, buying time for the Israelis.....

Siniora has been calling for an immediate ceasefire, along with THE ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD, before detailed talks regarding negotiations can even think about beginning.... how can there be talks when the bombs are still falling killing hundreds????? are they fucking dyslexic? there is a proper sequence to this shit, a 3rd grader can figure that out....bombing needs to stop first, and if Rice wants to pat Israel on the back with one hand, and wipe a tear coming down Sinoiras cheek with the other, tell her to stay in fucking Washington.....

[ShaE]

Absolutely, to even think about going to Beirut, to look at any Lebanese in the face, and say its for "talks", while ITS BECAUSE OF AMERICA, AND ONLY AMERICA, that this war as been going on so long, buying time for the Israelis.....

Bull. Responsibility for your own actions...it's not b/c of US this war has continued, it's b/c of the parties involved. Yes we could help, and we could be doing more...but you cannot pin that on us solely and absolve the parties that are actually FIGHTING.


are they fucking dyslexic? there is a proper sequence to this shit, a 3rd grader can figure that out....bombing needs to stop first


Since when do terrorists respect or give a shit about "proper sequence" re: warfare? Their very existence defies it.

[Defekted]

Bull. Responsibility for your own actions...it's not b/c of US this war has continued, it's b/c of the parties involved. Yes we could help, and we could be doing more...but you cannot pin that on us solely and absolve the parties that are actually FIGHTING.




Since when do terrorists respect or give a shit about "proper sequence" re: warfare? Their very existence defies it.


Not bull....this war would be over with ONE PHONECALL FROM MR. BUSH... thats a fact.... US is the only roadblock for a ceasefire....ask anyone knowledgeable about this situation and this history of the region....cease-fires happen whenever US says it happens....its clear, the US wants Hezbullah degraded, and will give Israel at least a few more weeks of this shit to do that (even though they arent even coming close)..... at the expense of the Lebanese of course....


so you are equating terrorists with the US, Israel, and the world community? Israel should follow hezbullahs lead? what ever happen to securing the moral highground in a conflict? is that not valuable anymore? No one can talk negotiation while being bombed......common sense......

[ShaE]

Not bull....this war would be over with ONE PHONECALL FROM MR. BUSH... thats a fact.... US is the only roadblock for a ceasefire....ask anyone knowledgeable about this situation and this history of the region....cease-fires happen whenever US says it happens....its clear, the US wants Hezbullah degraded, and will give Israel at least a few more weeks of this shit to do that (even though they arent even coming close)..... at the expense of the Lebanese of course....

No doubt we have incredible influence over Israel but that is not the same as saying " us is the ONLY roadblock to a ceasefire"...how about the WARRING PARTIES??? They're the reason, and the cause of this...they began fighting. You cannot say we are the ONLY ROADBLOCK that's laughable. OUTSIDE the warring parties, yes, we're the most influential. But don't write their stupid asses out of the equation. At the expense of the Lebanese? Lay blame with them where it's due too...you allow terrorists to exist in and be gov't in your country you should expect it's going to bite you in the ass at some point. I am NOT SAYING it's ok for civilians to die in these numbers, but to absolve them, as if they had no prior knowledge that supporting or allowing hezbollah to exist and act in the gov't would throw shit in their direction is absurd.


so you are equating terrorists with the US, Israel, and the world community? Israel should follow hezbullahs lead? what ever happen to securing the moral highground in a conflict? is that not valuable anymore? No one can talk negotiation while being bombed......common sense......

I'm not following you...I'm saying when you deal with terrorists they have no respect for proper warfare, or proper steps/behavior. What do you mean nobody can talk negotiations while people are being bombed??? They won't but of COURSE they could. Backdoor negotiations have gone on since the beginning of time...the OPTIMUM situation would be everyone lay down your guns and get around the table, but who's to say dialogue, even in limited form, cannot take place while fighting goes on? The parties just WON'T do it bc this war is more about impressions and appearances. Israel is trying to make a statement of huge intimidation and doesn't want to lose face, and hezbollah is doing the same...they don't want to back down. Neither side is eager to cease fire or negotiate.

[Defekted]

of course, the warring parties are the ones who will stop shooting and killing,

but when it comes to ending the conflict, it wont be done by the Israelis or Hezbullah ....

Hezbullah has stated from the beginning it wants a ceasefire but will respond to Israel.....Israel has stated from the beginning that this offensive will not be over until hezbullah is destroyed.....

the world community has condemed hezbullahs initial kidnapping of the two soldiers, INCLUDING THE ARAB COUNTRIES...... and everyone kept a tight lip in the inital 4 or 5 days when Israel was bombing Lebanon right and left.... but day 17 comes around, and now THE ENTIRE WORLD is outraged by the civilian loss on the Lebanese side and has been screaming for the 10 days ceaserfire but the US has been foolishly turning a deaf ear and blind eye to all this, making them look incredibly bias, and losing any limited credit it had in the world as a fair broker.....

mark my words, this conflict will end when washington FINALLY calls Tel Aviv and gives the nod.... it wont end on Israel's accord..... trust me

[ShaE]

of course, the warring parties are the ones who will stop shooting and killing,

but when it comes to ending the conflict, it wont be done by the Israelis or Hezbullah ....

Hezbullah has stated from the beginning it wants a ceasefire but will respond to Israel.....Israel has stated from the beginning that this offensive will not be over until hezbullah is destroyed.....

the world community has condemed hezbullahs initial kidnapping of the two soldiers, INCLUDING THE ARAB COUNTRIES...... and everyone kept a tight lip in the inital 4 or 5 days when Israel was bombing Lebanon right and left.... but day 17 comes around, and now THE ENTIRE WORLD is outraged by the civilian loss on the Lebanese side and has been screaming for the 10 days ceaserfire but the US has been foolishly turning a deaf ear and blind eye to all this, making them look incredibly bias, and losing any limited credit it had in the world as a fair broker.....

mark my words, this conflict will end when washington FINALLY calls Tel Aviv and gives the nod.... it wont end on Israel's accord..... trust me

I agree w/ all that, I just didn't like the tone of placing responsibility on the US shoulders as if this is all their doing. That is only AFTER the fact, we didn't get them into this...yet we will have to somehow get them out.

Nobody in the world would ever think the US would be a fair broker in any situations involving Israel. you could not convince people of that ever, we're too close as allies. For better or worse, it's ingrained in peoples' minds that the us will supremely back Israel and I don't really think many people would've expected any differently.

This admin doesn't know its ass from its elbow re: foreign relations so exactly how much they bungle shit is infinite in its possibilities.

[Micha]

53 civilians killed 37 of which are children.

Any how many were hezbollah??

[Bekim...]

Any how many were hezbollah??

those kids would have grown up to become terrorists anyway..... they are taught nothing but hate for the jew and america.

[Micha]

those kids would have grown up to become terrorists anyway..... they are taught nothing but hate for the jew and america.

You dont know that for sure Beck. I was raised a lot of ways. And I still have a mind of my own.

[Bekim...]

You dont know that for sure Beck. I was raised a lot of ways. And I still have a mind of my own.

ok for arguments sake lets say 75%

[Eleni]

You dont know that for sure Beck. I was raised a lot of ways. And I still have a mind of my own.

You are comparing yourself to a woman your age raised in the middle east?!!?
You have a mind of your own because you are ALLOWED TO. Enjoy the freedom!

[Bekim...]

You are comparing yourself to a woman your age raised in the middle east?!!?
You have a mind of your own because you are ALLOWED TO. Enjoy the freedom!

gilr came on here saying she doesnt care about anything in the middle east and now shes a fucking expert on the subject

[Micha]

You are comparing yourself to a woman your age raised in the middle east?!!?
You have a mind of your own because you are ALLOWED TO. Enjoy the freedom!
I see your point.

[Micha]

gilr came on here saying she doesnt care about anything in the middle east and now shes a fucking expert on the subject

I definitely dont think i am an expert. I dont know shit about middle eastern affairs. The reality is that you, me, nor anyone else on here knows the whole truth about what is really going on. We can only assume what we are being told is the truth. But I still think war is not the answer :shrugger.

And I see your points as well...dont get me wrong...I just dont agree that all arabs are terrorists...thats all.

[Eleni]

I see your point.

:RightOn

[ShaE]

I definitely dont think i am an expert. I dont know shit about middle eastern affairs. The reality is that you, me, nor anyone else on here knows the whole truth about what is really going on. We can only assume what we are being told is the truth. But I still think war is not the answer :shrugger.

And I see your points as well...dont get me wrong...I just dont agree that all arabs are terrorists...thats all.
There's a big HUGE middle ground between " I don't know shit" about something and " I don't know the whole truth".