Protesters Break into U.N. Headquarters in Beirut

[ShaE]

Weren't people just criticizing Israel for hitting the UN outpost??? This hardly looks good either. :disappoin Doesn't look at all like the people want the fighting stopped...and definitely doesn't look like it's ONLY the US holding up a cease fire.

Protesters Break into U.N. Headquarters in Beirut
By Tom Perry
Reuters
BEIRUT (July 30) -
Lebanese protesters broke into the U.N. headquarters in Beirut on Sunday, smashing windows and ransacking offices, after an Israeli air strike killed 54 people in south Lebanon.


Several thousand people massed outside the building in downtown Beirut chanting "Death to Israel, death to America. We sacrifice our blood and souls for Lebanon."


Geir Petersen, the personal representative of U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan in Lebanon, condemned the Israeli attack on the village of Qana and called for an immediate investigation.


"I strongly condemn today's killing of tens of civilians by Israeli shelling of residential buildings in the village of Qana," he said. He was not in building when it was attacked.


By late afternoon, all the protesters had drifted away.


At least 542 Lebanese, mostly civilians, have been killed in the war between Israel and Hizbollah and there is growing anger in Lebanon that the international community has not done enough to end it.


Lebanon's health minister estimates the toll at 750, including unrecovered bodies. Fifty one Israelis have also been killed.


"We understand the feeling of the Lebanese people after many civilian victims fell in the bombardment of Qana ... which reminds us of the tragedy that befell the people of the village in 1996," said Mervat Tallawy, U.N. under-secretary-general.


"We appreciate the intervention of the highest Lebanese authorities to provide protection for the U.N. headquarters in Beirut and Lebanon's need for the United Nations and ESCWA," said Tallawy, the executive secretary of the United Nations Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia (ESCWA).


In April 1996, Israeli shelling killed more than 100 civilians sheltering at a U.N. peacekeepers' base in Qana. On Sunday, most of the 54 killed were children.


CALLS TO ATTACK TEL AVIV


U.N. spokesman Khaled Mansour said the building had been stoned and furniture smashed but no U.N. staff were hurt as they had taken refuge in the basement. He said a small fire was started on the second floor but it had been contained.


Demonstrators held aloft the flags of Lebanon, Hizbollah and the Amal party, whose leader, Parliament Speaker Nabih Berri, appealed for a halt to the attack on the building.


Demonstrators tore down a U.N. flag outside the building and ripped it to shreds and called on Hizbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah to launch rocket attacks on Tel Aviv.


"Oh Nasrallah, oh our cherished one, destroy, destroy Tel Aviv," they chanted.


Members of Hizbollah, the Shi'ite group that sparked the war 19 days ago when it seized two Israeli soldiers and killed eight in a cross-border raid, tried to restrain the crowd.


Following the attack, Lebanon canceled a planned visit by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Sunday, saying she was unwelcome until a ceasefire was declared.


Copyright 2006 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

[Defekted]

Weren't people just criticizing Israel for hitting the UN outpost??? This hardly looks good either. :disappoin Doesn't look at all like the people want the fighting stopped...and definitely doesn't look like it's ONLY the US holding up a cease fire.

Protesters Break into U.N. Headquarters in Beirut
By Tom Perry
Reuters
BEIRUT (July 30) -
Lebanese protesters broke into the U.N. headquarters in Beirut on Sunday, smashing windows and ransacking offices, after an Israeli air strike killed 54 people in south Lebanon.


Several thousand people massed outside the building in downtown Beirut chanting "Death to Israel, death to America. We sacrifice our blood and souls for Lebanon."


Geir Petersen, the personal representative of U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan in Lebanon, condemned the Israeli attack on the village of Qana and called for an immediate investigation.


"I strongly condemn today's killing of tens of civilians by Israeli shelling of residential buildings in the village of Qana," he said. He was not in building when it was attacked.


By late afternoon, all the protesters had drifted away.


At least 542 Lebanese, mostly civilians, have been killed in the war between Israel and Hizbollah and there is growing anger in Lebanon that the international community has not done enough to end it.


Lebanon's health minister estimates the toll at 750, including unrecovered bodies. Fifty one Israelis have also been killed.


"We understand the feeling of the Lebanese people after many civilian victims fell in the bombardment of Qana ... which reminds us of the tragedy that befell the people of the village in 1996," said Mervat Tallawy, U.N. under-secretary-general.


"We appreciate the intervention of the highest Lebanese authorities to provide protection for the U.N. headquarters in Beirut and Lebanon's need for the United Nations and ESCWA," said Tallawy, the executive secretary of the United Nations Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia (ESCWA).


In April 1996, Israeli shelling killed more than 100 civilians sheltering at a U.N. peacekeepers' base in Qana. On Sunday, most of the 54 killed were children.


CALLS TO ATTACK TEL AVIV


U.N. spokesman Khaled Mansour said the building had been stoned and furniture smashed but no U.N. staff were hurt as they had taken refuge in the basement. He said a small fire was started on the second floor but it had been contained.


Demonstrators held aloft the flags of Lebanon, Hizbollah and the Amal party, whose leader, Parliament Speaker Nabih Berri, appealed for a halt to the attack on the building.


Demonstrators tore down a U.N. flag outside the building and ripped it to shreds and called on Hizbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah to launch rocket attacks on Tel Aviv.


"Oh Nasrallah, oh our cherished one, destroy, destroy Tel Aviv," they chanted.


Members of Hizbollah, the Shi'ite group that sparked the war 19 days ago when it seized two Israeli soldiers and killed eight in a cross-border raid, tried to restrain the crowd.


Following the attack, Lebanon canceled a planned visit by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Sunday, saying she was unwelcome until a ceasefire was declared.


Copyright 2006 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.


Anything that symbolizes the Ineffective UN, the United Sates, or Israel is not safe anymore anywhere in Lebanon.... the people are over a boiling point.....

and its important to know this, its not just the shiite community, the christians, the sunnis, THE ENTIRE LEBANESE POPULATION are now a unified voice...

As I said in the beginning, the strategy of hitting Lebanon hard to alienate hezbullah will backfire terribly against Isreal.... and it is showing it now..

the massacre of Qana this morning is the turning point of the war in my opinion.....

[Bekim...]

As I said in the beginning, the strategy of hitting Lebanon hard to alienate hezbullah will backfire terribly against Isreal.... and it is showing it now..


not really I think Israel is proving a point and the next time they fuck with Israel or America I think much more aggressive actions should be implemented, actions that make this attack look like a day at the park.

[ShaE]

Anything that symbolizes the Ineffective UN, the United Sates, or Israel is not safe anymore anywhere in Lebanon.... the people are over a boiling point.....

and its important to know this, its not just the shiite community, the christians, the sunnis, THE ENTIRE LEBANESE POPULATION are now a unified voice...

As I said in the beginning, the strategy of hitting Lebanon hard to alienate hezbullah will backfire terribly against Isreal.... and it is showing it now..

the massacre of Qana this morning is the turning point of the war in my opinion.....
Interesting how they're a unified voice now, but not in opposition to Hezbollah prior to all this.

Sucks how they'll unify over this, when Israel and the UN piss them off, but not when these terrorist assholes were rising to power and strong-arming them. People should've gotten mad THEN, and done something about it.

[ShaE]

not really I think Israel is proving a point and the next time they fuck with Israel or America I think much more aggressive actions should be implemented, actions that make this attack look like a day at the park.
I think they need to look inward and realize allowing terrorists to run your country is NOT such a bright fkin move. Same way we need to look at ourselves and take responsibility for the stupidity that got Bush elected, they need to reexamine wtf they're doing by allowing this type of shit to go on.

[Defekted]

no chance man.....

first of all, reality check.....

The IDF has been humbled beyond anyones expectations in South Lebanon, they still havent controlled Bint Jbeil in the 6th day of trying......

IDF's goals started with

1) THE DESTRUCTION OF HEZBULLAH

then it was downgraded to

2) estacblishing a security zone up to the Lihtani rive (10+ miles)

then it was downgraded to

3) establsihing a 2 miles security zone.....

This has already been a huge failure for Israel. Militarily and Morally......

[Defekted]

I think they need to look inward and realize allowing terrorists to run your country is NOT such a bright fkin move. Same way we need to look at ourselves and take responsibility for the stupidity that got Bush elected, they need to reexamine wtf they're doing by allowing this type of shit to go on.

where are you getting your information from????? terrorists dont run the country. Hezbullah has 12 ministers in a parliament that is comprised of hundreds of different sects..... they are a huge representation of the shiite community (35% of the entire population), they have a polictial wing that looks after the shiite community, the same way the IRA had a politcal wing, and so many more.... Even Israel has NO INTENTION to destroy this aspect of hezbullah, they know it has to ultimately deal with the reality that hezbullah is going to be a politcal party no matter what, they represent so many people...... the military wing is the problem, and is a problem for all lebanese, and every lebanese knows this and has been working to solve.....

[ShaE]

where are you getting your information from????? terrorists dont run the country. Hezbullah has 12 ministers in a parliament that is comprised of hundreds of different sects..... they are a huge representation of the shiite community (35% of the entire population), they have a polictial wing that looks after the shiite community, the same way the IRA had a politcal wing, and so many more.... Even Israel has NO INTENTION to destroy this aspect of hezbullah, they know it has to ultimately deal with the reality that hezbullah is going to be a politcal party no matter what, they represent so many people...... the military wing is the problem, and is a problem for all lebanese, and every lebanese knows this and has been working to solve.....
Don't they NOT have a lebanese police force? Didn't you yourself argue that the people weren't able to disarm them? That there are many in Lebanon who don't want them there at all? Didn't they single-handedly run an operation against Israel which resulted in getting the entire country embroiled in a war?

Sounds like they're running shit to me. Why wouldn't people act sooner? Why did they get elected to ANY seats?? Why does it taking unified hatred for ISRAEL to get the lebanese people to act, as opposed to against hezbollah?

[ShaE]

From everything I've read it sounds like they're awfully influential and powerful to me. I think it's reckless to allow this in your country, and I think people get complacent...or are frustrated and turn to whomever gets them results to lead. That is seriously a problem, and then shit hits the fan and people wonder why. We've seen what can happen when you elect or support inept or reckless leadership. You have to take responsibility for that. You cannot tolerate terrorists to operate w/i your country or in your gov't. Whether they're " running it" or not...it doesn't take a majority for them to act out and cause serious damage- as they've done.

Hezbollah
Hezbollah (Arabic: حزب الله‎ ḥizbu-llāh[1], meaning Party of God) is a Lebanese Islamist Shiite organization and political party[2][3], with a military arm and a civilian arm [4]. It was founded in 1982 with the declared aim to fight the Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon[5] that lasted until 2000[6]. Hezbollah is currently led by its Secretary General, Hassan Nasrallah.
Background
Hezbollah was inspired by the success of the Islamic Revolution in Iran [7]. It was formed by the Ayatollah Khomeini's followers in the early eighties to spread Shia revolution[7][8][9], and to combat Israeli occupation following the 1982 Lebanon War [7]. Hezbollah views Israel as a whole as "an illegal usurper entity, which is based on falsehood, massacres, and illusions" [10], and follows a distinct version of Islamic Shia ideology developed by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, leader of the Islamic Revolution in Iran.[11]

Along with the Amal Movement, Hezbollah is the main political party and military organization representing the Shia community, Lebanon's largest religious bloc.[12] It is also a recognized political party in Lebanon, where it has participated in government.[13] The civilian wing participates in the Parliament of Lebanon, taking nearly 11% of the seats (14 out of 128) and the bloc it forms with others, the Resistance and Development Bloc, 27.3% (see Lebanese general election, 2005). It is a minority partner in the current Cabinet. [citation needed]

Hezbollah not only has armed and political wings but also boasts an extensive social development programme. The civilian wing also runs hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Its Reconstruction Campaign ('Jihad al-Bina') is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructural development projects in Lebanon.[14][15] The group currently operates at least four hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools, and two agricultural centres that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance programme. Medical care is also cheaper than in most of the country's private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members.[4] Most experts believe that Hezbollah's social and health programmes are worth hundreds of millions of dollars annually.[4] Hezbollah mainly gets its money from donations. It is widely thought that Hezbollah receives financial help from Iran and Syria, although Iran denies this[16], and Hezbollah denies receiving aid from Syria.[4]

Throughout most of the Arab and Muslim worlds, Hezbollah is highly regarded as a legitimate resistance movement.[17] According to a poll released by the "Beirut Center for Research and Information" on 26 July during 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict, 87 percent of Lebanese support Hezbollah's fight with Israel, a rise of 29 percent on a similar poll conducted in February. More striking, however, is the level of support for Hezbollah's resistance from non-Shiite communities. Eighty percent of Christians polled supported Hezbollah along with 80 percent of Druze and 89 percent of Sunnis.[18]

The Lebanese government confirmed it as a legitimate resistance against occupation.[19][20] 74 percent of Christian Lebanese viewed Hezbollah as a resistance organization.[21]

The United States, Canada and Israel consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization, claiming that the organization initiates attacks against civilians and ideologically supports such attacks by other similar organizations.

[drumaboy]

Don't they NOT have a lebanese police force? Didn't you yourself argue that the people weren't able to disarm them? That there are many in Lebanon who don't want them there at all? Didn't they single-handedly run an operation against Israel which resulted in getting the entire country embroiled in a war?

Sounds like they're running shit to me. Why wouldn't people act sooner? Why did they get elected to ANY seats?? Why does it taking unified hatred for ISRAEL to get the lebanese people to act, as opposed to against hezbollah?

stop that, you're using common sense, and he's not going to understand you, he's a terrorist sympathizer, and given the chance he would elect the KKK or the bloods and crips into Congress

[Defekted]

Don't they NOT have a lebanese police force? Didn't you yourself argue that the people weren't able to disarm them? That there are many in Lebanon who don't want them there at all? Didn't they single-handedly run an operation against Israel which resulted in getting the entire country embroiled in a war?

Sounds like they're running shit to me. Why wouldn't people act sooner? Why did they get elected to ANY seats?? Why does it taking unified hatred for ISRAEL to get the lebanese people to act, as opposed to against hezbollah?


Like I said many times before, the disarming of the military wing of Hezbullah is a complicated process that will take time, there are still lebanese land still occupied by Israel, so hezbullah is still considered a resistance force. But even with that, there was a debate in the country regarding the fact that an armed militia IS NOT in the best interest of any soverign country and that they need to be disarmed. They have signed up in support of the Lebanese government offer for a ceasefire that will include the prisoner swap, all lebanese for all israelis detained, sheeba farms returned to lebanon, and a internation peace keeping force in the south, in return hezbullah will disarm.... so like i said this is a process, the lebanese government is powerless to disarm them overnight, there needs to be concessions on all sides for the ultimate disarming of hezbullah...... thats the facts on the ground......dont forget, even the Lebanese government themselves official condemed the hezbullah operation, everyone has.

why are they elected any seats? because they represent the shiite community and have alot more to their "mission statement" then the destruction of Israel, they do a massive amount of social and politcal work for the shiite community... if you read up on the lebanese civil war, youll find out that there were tons of factions that were armed and fighting each other, all divided along secterian lines.... and they are all in the government. The lebanese government is a coalition of all these groups....

Everyone in Lebanon, other than the religious shiites, was united against Hezbullah being armed. The problem is hezbullah has a huge backing by the shiites and of course Syria and Iran...... so it was going to happen but it will have to take time.....and as for united against Israel, lol..... i dont need to explain why that is happening......

[Defekted]

stop that, you're using common sense, and he's not going to understand you, he's a terrorist sympathizer, and given the chance he would elect the KKK or the bloods and crips into Congress

Bro what are you talking about? you are sounding like a complete idiot, and a racist......

if you want we can debate things that you might feel more comfortable about, like drum sets, but even then I think I would embarass you

[drumaboy]

Bro what are you talking about? you are sounding like a complete idiot, and a racist......

if you want we can debate things that you might feel more confortable about, like drum sets, but even then I think I would embarass you

hmmm, debate drum sets, uhm, yeah, because instruments bring that sort of discussion........i can already tell youre a dirka dirka in the making, taking a peaceful matter of music instruments and turn it into a heated debate, lol.....and yes, you are a terrorist sympathizer, period....you give legitimacy to terrorist organizations, strangely, while enjoying the western deomcratic freedom here, i can understand some dirka dirka overseas being sympathetic, but, here?.....do yourself a favor and owe up to your ncc name back to lebanon

[Defekted]

From everything I've read it sounds like they're awfully influential and powerful to me. I think it's reckless to allow this in your country, and I think people get complacent...or are frustrated and turn to whomever gets them results to lead. That is seriously a problem, and then shit hits the fan and people wonder why. We've seen what can happen when you elect or support inept or reckless leadership. You have to take responsibility for that. You cannot tolerate terrorists to operate w/i your country or in your gov't. Whether they're " running it" or not...it doesn't take a majority for them to act out and cause serious damage- as they've done.

Hezbollah
Hezbollah (Arabic: حزب الله‎ ḥizbu-llāh[1], meaning Party of God) is a Lebanese Islamist Shiite organization and political party[2][3], with a military arm and a civilian arm [4]. It was founded in 1982 with the declared aim to fight the Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon[5] that lasted until 2000[6]. Hezbollah is currently led by its Secretary General, Hassan Nasrallah.
Background
Hezbollah was inspired by the success of the Islamic Revolution in Iran [7]. It was formed by the Ayatollah Khomeini's followers in the early eighties to spread Shia revolution[7][8][9], and to combat Israeli occupation following the 1982 Lebanon War [7]. Hezbollah views Israel as a whole as "an illegal usurper entity, which is based on falsehood, massacres, and illusions" [10], and follows a distinct version of Islamic Shia ideology developed by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, leader of the Islamic Revolution in Iran.[11]

Along with the Amal Movement, Hezbollah is the main political party and military organization representing the Shia community, Lebanon's largest religious bloc.[12] It is also a recognized political party in Lebanon, where it has participated in government.[13] The civilian wing participates in the Parliament of Lebanon, taking nearly 11% of the seats (14 out of 128) and the bloc it forms with others, the Resistance and Development Bloc, 27.3% (see Lebanese general election, 2005). It is a minority partner in the current Cabinet. [citation needed]

Hezbollah not only has armed and political wings but also boasts an extensive social development programme. The civilian wing also runs hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Its Reconstruction Campaign ('Jihad al-Bina') is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructural development projects in Lebanon.[14][15] The group currently operates at least four hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools, and two agricultural centres that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance programme. Medical care is also cheaper than in most of the country's private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members.[4] Most experts believe that Hezbollah's social and health programmes are worth hundreds of millions of dollars annually.[4] Hezbollah mainly gets its money from donations. It is widely thought that Hezbollah receives financial help from Iran and Syria, although Iran denies this[16], and Hezbollah denies receiving aid from Syria.[4]

Throughout most of the Arab and Muslim worlds, Hezbollah is highly regarded as a legitimate resistance movement.[17] According to a poll released by the "Beirut Center for Research and Information" on 26 July during 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict, 87 percent of Lebanese support Hezbollah's fight with Israel, a rise of 29 percent on a similar poll conducted in February. More striking, however, is the level of support for Hezbollah's resistance from non-Shiite communities. Eighty percent of Christians polled supported Hezbollah along with 80 percent of Druze and 89 percent of Sunnis.[18]

The Lebanese government confirmed it as a legitimate resistance against occupation.[19][20] 74 percent of Christian Lebanese viewed Hezbollah as a resistance organization.[21]

The United States, Canada and Israel consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization, claiming that the organization initiates attacks against civilians and ideologically supports such attacks by other similar organizations.

All of the above is correct, and should reflect the dilemma of disarming hezbullah, it cant be done militarily by Israel, and it cant be done overnight by the lebanese people....as long as there are occupied lands by israel, they have a legitimate card in their hands as a resistence force.

Mark my words, this conflict will end with Israel doing a prisoner swap and giving up the sheeba farms..... and THEN will you have hezbullah disarmed, because at that point no one in Lebanon will consider them being armed to be legitimate and there will be no backing for them to contiue to be.....

[ShaE]

dont forget, even the Lebanese government themselves official condemed the hezbullah operation, everyone has.

Condemned but did what about? That's my entire point...people unite instantly against Israel the the us but when it comes to hezbollah it's a "process" and they "condemn" it but nobody rises up? Nobody takes action? I'm not saying this is unique to lebanon...it's not. It goes on BIGTIME here, people turn a blind eye, or tolerate shit they know to be wrong for whatever reason...then rise up in fury when shit hits the fan b/c of it. Should've seen it coming a mile away.


why are they elected any seats? because they represent the shiite community and have alot more to their "mission statement" then the destruction of Israel, they do a massive amount of social and politcal work for the shiite community...

So that excuses their being terrorists? That's my point..people allowed this b/c of what they offered and brought to the table. They allowed them to remain and represent them..well guess what, they're TERRORISTS and just about every Arab group classified their kidnapping Israeli soldiers as " reckless adventurism", endangering EVERYONE. Brilliant. So b/c of their wonderful social programs, you allowed them to stick around...took your precious time..and look what they did, terrorists acted like irresponsible terrorists. Don't give an unstable guy a gun and be surprised when he opens fire on whomever.


Everyone in Lebanon, other than the religious shiites, was united against Hezbullah being armed. The problem is hezbullah has a huge backing by the shiites and of course Syria and Iran...... so it was going to happen but it will have to take time.....and as for united against Israel, lol..... i dont need to explain why that is happening......
Ok, so they were united in principle or in action? Did they move to the streets as they did today screaming for death to america/israel? If only they'd been HALF as passionate about their condemnaton of hezbollah, situation might be diff now don't you think?

[ShaE]

Mark my words, this conflict will end with Israel doing a prisoner swap and giving up the sheeba farms..... and THEN will you have hezbullah disarmed, because at that point no one in Lebanon will consider them being armed to be legitimate and there will be no backing for them to contiue to be.....


No way. Hezbollah is riding high statuswise right now by not succumbing to Israel. No way in the world, after damage sustained in Lebanon to this level, will the people demand their disarmament. Would you? You've just had the everloving shit bombed out of you, and they're the only ones who put up a fight...you're unsure, unstable...and you're going to dismantle their military arm? Common sense...no way. War does not foster a feeling of security. Israel could extend as many olive branches as they want, nobody is going to be resting easy in that area for A LONG TIME. Iran will continue to back them, and so will the people out of fear if anything.

[Defekted]

hmmm, debate drum sets, uhm, yeah, because instruments bring that sort of discussion........i can already tell youre a dirka dirka in the making, taking a peaceful matter of music instruments and turn it into a heated debate, lol.....and yes, you are a terrorist sympathizer, period....you give legitimacy to terrorist organizations, strangely, while enjoying the western deomcratic freedom here, i can understand some dirka dirka overseas being sympathetic, but, here?.....do yourself a favor and owe up to your ncc name back to lebanon

typical "love it or leave it" mentality ....

I have stated my views on Hezbullah already, but ill do it again for all the slow people, please provide the drumroll for me ....

I am an atheist, anti-secterian, secular, and completely against ALL religion in government, whether it be muslim or christian.... only leads to problems. Hezbullah is a fanatical religious group and has no place in government, but the facts on the ground (something YOU ARE IN DIRE NEED of looking at) is Lebanon is divided religiously, in society, in governement, in everything ... thats what happens when you are fresh off of a 15 year civil war. So hezbullah has a place representing the shia community, as does the phalange for the maronites, Amal for secular shiites, the jumblatt bloc for the druze, and so forth (dont want to get to technical because ill lose you) Im a realist, and understand that there are processes to everything, and conflicts end only with negotiations on the politcal front...... so if you see my posts being very anti-Israel, its simply because the way they are attacking is to TERRORIZE the entire lebanese people, and not just hezbullah, they destroyed civilian infrastructure, they have bombed not only hezbullah positions, but entirely civilian buildings, lebanese army posts, un posts, etcetc.....they have fired on ambulances trying to get to the wounded, which means, the injured who could survive, dont......... so keep supporting the death and destruction, and ill keep opposing it..... call me a terrorist sympathizer, I actually prefer it, because when you do, I know that you have NOTHING to say other than insults, the first sign that you are running away from debate with your drumstick between your legs .....

[ShaE]

I am an atheist, anti-secterian, secular, and completely against ALL religion in government, whether it be muslim or christian.... only leads to problems.

:applaud

[Defekted]

Condemned but did what about? That's my entire point...people unite instantly against Israel the the us but when it comes to hezbollah it's a "process" and they "condemn" it but nobody rises up? Nobody takes action? I'm not saying this is unique to lebanon...it's not. It goes on BIGTIME here, people turn a blind eye, or tolerate shit they know to be wrong for whatever reason...then rise up in fury when shit hits the fan b/c of it. Should've seen it coming a mile away.



So that excuses their being terrorists? That's my point..people allowed this b/c of what they offered and brought to the table. They allowed them to remain and represent them..well guess what, they're TERRORISTS and just about every Arab group classified their kidnapping Israeli soldiers as " reckless adventurism", endangering EVERYONE. Brilliant. So b/c of their wonderful social programs, you allowed them to stick around...took your precious time..and look what they did, terrorists acted like irresponsible terrorists. Don't give an unstable guy a gun and be surprised when he opens fire on whomever.


Ok, so they were united in principle or in action? Did they move to the streets as they did today screaming for death to america/israel? If only they'd been HALF as passionate about their condemnaton of hezbollah, situation might be diff now don't you think?


How are you equating the rage today with how lebanese deal with hezbullah? Today a foreign force killed 60 civilians who were taking refuge from the fighting..... just the cherry on top of all the other shit that has happened the last 17 days..... hezbullah is lebanese, not from the planet mars, so dealing with them is a VERY VERY VERY delicate process..... the tension in Lebanon since the civil war ended can be set off by a candle... every sect is suspicious of the other and so on.... so to have wide spread protests and rhetoric against Hezbullah can start another civil war.... Lebanon is the size of maryland but is one of the most complicated countries in the world..... you cant look at things from you house, watching the news, or reading an article, and make simple questions like "why did the lebanese have them in their governemnt? why didnt they forcefully disarm them?" you need to look 25 levels deeper and understand the context of the situation (the history, the politcal situation in lebanon prior to this war, who is doing what and why).... doing that will paint a clearer picture of why things take time, especially in lebanon....

[ShaE]

you cant look at things from you house, watching the news, or reading an article, and make simple questions like "why did the lebanese have them in their governemnt? why didnt they forcefully disarm them?" you need to look 25 levels deeper and understand the context of the situation (the history, the politcal situation in lebanon prior to this war, who is doing what and why).... doing that will paint a clearer picture of why things take time, especially in lebanon....

I know, and I have, which is why I've said MANY TIMES I can understand parts of their point of view as to how things get to this point. I've equated it with citizens here and how we allow a lot of shit to go on, go unnoticed, or go unaddressed for various reasons so don't imply I'm only looking superficially. You're preaching to the choir..I overthink things, and I assume there is always FAR MORE to the story than most of us will know, but that doesn't mean you can't make observations.

They were rhtetorical questions...I wasn't implying that disarming hezbollah was simple, or that it would be easy for them to decrease their role in gov't..just drawing a comparison about how little was done, vs what CAN be done when people are emotional and hateful. ( for whatever reasons ). People have to call a spade a spade and take action sooner when things start going awry..you cannot allow these things to develop to crisis level before you address them. How will they stop hezbollah now? No way.

[NYDJ USA]

:applaud

I'm not ATHEIST nor COMMUNIST.
But I really believe that Politic mix with Religeon is POISON for THE SOCIETY.

[Defekted]

I know, and I have, which is why I've said MANY TIMES I can understand parts of their point of view as to how things get to this point. I've equated it with citizens here and how we allow a lot of shit to go on, go unnoticed, or go unaddressed for various reasons so don't imply I'm only looking superficially. You're preaching to the choir..I overthink things, and I assume there is always FAR MORE to the story than most of us will know, but that doesn't mean you can't make observations.

They were rhtetorical questions...I wasn't implying that disarming hezbollah was simple, or that it would be easy for them to decrease their role in gov't..just drawing a comparison about how little was done, vs what CAN be done when people are emotional and hateful. ( for whatever reasons ). People have to call a spade a spade and take action sooner when things start going awry..you cannot allow these things to develop to crisis level before you address them. How will they stop hezbollah now? No way.

I have hope that Hezbullah will be disarmed soon after the this crisis is over. It wont be done by Israel, to be sure, but the Lebanese people is fed up with their state within a state, so that will be Hezbullahs consession, once Israel's consession of returning some land and a prisoner exchange happens...... its the only ray of light from all this madness......

[Micha]

stop that, you're using common sense, and he's not going to understand you, he's a terrorist sympathizer, and given the chance he would elect the KKK or the bloods and crips into Congress

I dunno, maybe its just me, but I dont think he's a terrorist sympathizer :shrugger.

[Bekim...]

Israel is pounding teh shit out of lebanon again

[Micha]

I'm not ATHEIST nor COMMUNIST.
But I really believe that Politic mix with Religeon is POISON for THE SOCIETY.
I am not either and I was just gonna say that.

[Micha]

Israel is pounding teh shit out of lebanon again

Wasn't it YOU that mentioned the arabs were shouting in the streets celebrating when we were attacked on 911?? This nonsense you keep spreading is no better than that...

[Defekted]

I dunno, maybe its just me, but I dont think he's a terrorist sympathizer :shrugger.


dont worry micha, he just groups me with the international community who also thinks that Israel has used disproportionate force in Lebanon....

didnt you know that the majority of the world with the exception of Israel, the US government, and the rightwing public here in the states are terrorist sympathizers? the kid needs an education, badly. Thinking of starting a scholarship program, will be taking donations once i get a website up and running.

[Bekim...]

Wasn't it YOU that mentioned the arabs were shouting in the streets celebrating when we were attacked on 911?? This nonsense you keep spreading is no better than that...

israelis didnt do shit to me... dirty arabs and terrorist run countries like lebanon did... I hope israel moves north and finishes the job.

[Micha]

dirty arabs and terrorist run countries like lebanon did....

Terrorists blew up the World Trade. Not Arabs. Why can't you seperate the two?

[NYDJ USA]

Terrorists blew up the World Trade. Not Arabs. Why can't you seperate the two?

And the JEWS that killed JESUS.

[Defekted]

And the JEWS that killed JESUS.

:lostit

[NYDJ USA]

:lostit

Well, some people just won't stop making STEREOTYPE REMARK, they just back and forth with the same negative things.
So LET IT BE, and how IT FEELS ???
Is that HURT ?
YES IT DAMN RIGHT, ITS HURT !
So maybe every body will stop being so negative.

[Micha]

Well, some people just won't stop making STEREOTYPE REMARK, they just back and forth with the same negative things.
So LET IT BE, and how IT FEELS ???
Is that HURT ?
YES IT DAMN RIGHT, ITS HURT !
So maybe every body will stop being so negative.

i like your outlook. i agree that a lot of ppl are hurt and negative. i also think everyone should refrain from name-calling or any other form of verbal attack (and this goes for me too :shuffle). deal?

[NYDJ USA]

i like your outlook. i agree that a lot of ppl are hurt and negative. i also think everyone should refrain from name-calling or any other form of verbal attack (and this goes for me too :shuffle). deal?

Yup, thats a deal.
Lets be OBJECTIVE about WHAT IS HAPPENING, and put a side about WHO AND WHO.

[ShaE]

I have hope that Hezbullah will be disarmed soon after the this crisis is over. It wont be done by Israel, to be sure, but the Lebanese people is fed up with their state within a state, so that will be Hezbullahs consession, once Israel's consession of returning some land and a prisoner exchange happens...... its the only ray of light from all this madness......
I would hope so...:)

[ShaE]

Wasn't it YOU that mentioned the arabs were shouting in the streets celebrating when we were attacked on 911?? This nonsense you keep spreading is no better than that...
Umm..I really wouldn't put celebrating al qaeda running planes into buildings killing about 3 THOUSAND people...NOT LIVING in a war zone, not experiencing wartime with ANYONE of any kind... to Israel's attacks on Lebanon AFTER direct provocation. Whether you feel they overreacted or not...hezbollah crossed into Israel and kidnapped soldiers. What did we do directly to warrant 9/11? It was a cumulative effect of islamic fundamentalist HATE for us...not a result of ONE ACT OF WAR. We didn't "provoke" shit, they acted ON US, not out of self defense...out of hate.

I'm not saying I agree w/ bek's taking delight in this situation...but Israel's defensive actions..when there is a previous history of war...and a couple hundred death toll...is hardly the same as young kids and others dancing in streets celebrating planes hitting the towers killing a few thousand.

[Micha]

I'm not saying I agree w/ bek's taking delight in this situation...but Israel's defensive actions..when there is a previous history of war...and a couple hundred death toll...is hardly the same as young kids and others dancing in streets celebrating planes hitting the towers killing a few thousand.

Did media images depicting arabs cheering in the streets surface post-911? The answer is yes. Is it possible that these images were a form of propaganda? The answer to that question is yes. Therefore both sides are possible. How can you on this basis alone, make a decision to kill innocent people?

Please someone answer this one.

[ShaE]

Did media images depicting arabs cheering in the streets surface post-911? The answer is yes. Is it possible that these images were a form of propaganda? The answer to that question is yes. Therefore both sides are possible. How can you on this basis alone, make a decision to kill innocent people?

Please someone answer this one.
Propaganda :suspicion
You doubt the authenticity of those pictures? You doubt that there were many people in the middle east rejoicing that day?

What are you talking about use this as a basis to kill innocent people??? I wasn't justifying anything, I was discrediting your comparison. Your comparison of bek's support of Israel to muslims celebrating 9/11 was really inaccurate, and I was pointing out the differences.

[NYDJ USA]

Did media images depicting arabs cheering in the streets surface post-911? The answer is yes. Is it possible that these images were a form of propaganda? The answer to that question is yes. Therefore both sides are possible. How can you on this basis alone, make a decision to kill innocent people?

Please someone answer this one.

The answer is : Israel must pull out from all of the occoupied territories, and both the Palestinian and The Israelis must recognize each other rights to have their own state. Work, live together with love, peace & harmony.

Lets THEIR HOPES BECOME REALITY, by burrying all of those ANCIENT HATRED.
Don't past those ancient hatred to THE YOUNG GENERATION, DON'T DO like the way the OLD OLD GENERATIONS THAT HAD BEEN PASSING THEIR HATRED, GENERATION TO GENERATION FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

:heart :heart :heart :heart :heart

[Defekted]

The answer is : Israel must pull out from all of the occoupied territories, and both the Palestinian and The Israelis must recognize each other rights to have their own state. Work, live together with love, peace & harmony.

Lets THEIR HOPES BECOME REALITY, by burrying all of those ANCIENT HATRED.
Don't past those ancient hatred to THE YOUNG GENERATION, DON'T DO like the way the OLD OLD GENERATIONS THAT HAD BEEN PASSING THEIR HATRED, GENERATION TO GENERATION FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

:heart :heart :heart :heart :heart

your a smart man.....

pull out of occupied lands, then teach the kids mutual respect for the other......

only way there will be lasting peace......

[Micha]

The answer is : Israel must pull out from all of the occoupied territories, and both the Palestinian and The Israelis must recognize each other rights to have their own state. Work, live together with love, peace & harmony.

Lets THEIR HOPES BECOME REALITY, by burrying all of those ANCIENT HATRED.
Don't past those ancient hatred to THE YOUNG GENERATION, DON'T DO like the way the OLD OLD GENERATIONS THAT HAD BEEN PASSING THEIR HATRED, GENERATION TO GENERATION FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

:heart :heart :heart :heart :heart

It all sounds so beautiful, but is it possible?

[Micha]

Propaganda :suspicion
You doubt the authenticity of those pictures? You doubt that there were many people in the middle east rejoicing that day?

What are you talking about use this as a basis to kill innocent people??? I wasn't justifying anything, I was discrediting your comparison. Your comparison of bek's support of Israel to muslims celebrating 9/11 was really inaccurate, and I was pointing out the differences.

Dont act suprised. I have heard many times that the footage we saw took place at an entirely different time not 911. So its not just me thinking this.

I don't doubt that there were people in the middle east rejoicing. There were people in America rejoicing. Not everyone loves us.

[Defekted]

It all sounds so beautiful, but is it possible?

not with all that has happened in the past two weeks for the lebanese and what has happened in the past 6 years for the palestinians.....

its gonna take a few generations to forget the death and destruction that has just happened......

[Micha]

not with all that has happened in the past two weeks for the lebanese and what has happened in the past 6 years for the palestinians.....

its gonna take a few generations to forget the death and destruction that has just happened......

What a hopeless situation for everyone involved. I assume Isreal also can not forgive the death and destruction that has happened to them. :whatnow

[ShaE]

Dont act suprised. I have heard many times that the footage we saw took place at an entirely different time not 911. So its not just me thinking this.

I don't doubt that there were people in the middle east rejoicing. There were people in America rejoicing. Not everyone loves us.
Let's put it this way...I don't need pictures to tell me there were plenty of people happy that day. It really is irrelevant...the contempt some muslims have for us is indisputable.

Not everyone loves us? Hell, I think that's the understatement of the century lol

[Micha]

Let's put it this way...I don't need pictures to tell me there were plenty of people happy that day. It really is irrelevant...the contempt some muslims have for us is indisputable.

Not everyone loves us? Hell, I think that's the understatement of the century lol

agreed

[NYDJ USA]

[QUOTE=Micha]It all sounds so beautiful, but is it possible?[/QUOTE

Yes they can.
The only thing they have to forget all of those ANCIENT HARTRED and burry them.
And let all of the young GENERATIONS of ARABS/PALESTINIAN and THE ISRAELIS/JEWS work together toward Peace & Harmony.
They can have FEDERATION OF STATES IF THEY WANT, TOGETHER THEY CAN PUT AN END TO THIS DEVIL OR VIOLENCE CIRCLE FOREVER.

:heart :heart :heart :heart :heart