View Full Version : As iran developes nukes ...Obama wants to eliminate our own ..lol
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 01:01 PM
this guy is dreaming!! lol ..what a rookie!!!
Obama to Urge Elimination of Nuclear Weapons
By JEFF ZELENY
WASHINGTON, Oct. 1 — Senator Barack Obama will propose on Tuesday setting a goal of eliminating all nuclear weapons in the world, saying the United States should greatly reduce its stockpiles to lower the threat of nuclear terrorism, aides say.
In a speech at DePaul University in Chicago, Mr. Obama will add his voice to a plan endorsed earlier this year by a bipartisan group of former government officials from the cold war era who say the United States must begin building a global consensus to reverse a reliance on nuclear weapons that have become “increasingly hazardous and decreasingly effective.”
Mr. Obama, according to details provided by his campaign Monday, also will call for pursuing vigorous diplomatic efforts aimed at a global ban on the development, production and deployment of intermediate-range missiles.
“In 2009, we will have a window of opportunity to renew our global leadership and bring our nation together,” Mr. Obama is planning to say, according to an excerpt of remarks provided by his aides. “If we don’t seize that moment, we may not get another.”
His speech was to come one day after an announcement by the Bush administration that it had tripled the rate of dismantling nuclear weapons over the last year, putting the United States on track to reducing its stockpile of weapons by half by 2012.
The exact number of weapons being dismantled, like the overall stockpile, is secret, but officials said Monday that with the planned reductions, the total number of American nuclear weapons would be at the lowest levels since Dwight D. Eisenhower was president.
Under a 2002 treaty, the United States and Russia agreed to limit the number of operational nuclear weapons in their arsenals to between 1,700 and 2,200 by 2012, though that agreement did not address weapons in reserve stockpiles.
Mr. Obama, Democrat of Illinois, is seeking to draw attention to his foreign policy views with the approach of the fifth anniversary of the Congressional vote authorizing military action in Iraq. He is highlighting his early opposition to the war, which he argues is a sign of judgment that is more important than the number of years served in Washington.
Mr. Obama, a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, often tells voters that the Iraq war has consumed American foreign policy to the detriment of its ability to address other threats facing the nation. In his speech on Tuesday, aides said, Mr. Obama will assert, as he has before, that the United States should not threaten terrorist training camps with nuclear weapons.
If elected, Mr. Obama plans to say, he will lead a global effort to secure nuclear weapons and material at vulnerable sites within four years. He also will pledge to end production of fissile material for weapons, agree not to build new weapons and remove any remaining nuclear weapons from hair-trigger alert.
In his speech, according to a campaign briefing paper, Mr. Obama also will call for using a combination of diplomacy and pressure to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons and to eliminate North Korea’s nuclear weapons programs. Aides did not say what Mr. Obama intended to do if diplomacy and sanctions failed.
In setting a goal of eliminating nuclear weapons in the world, Mr. Obama is endorsing a call for “urgent new actions” to prevent a new nuclear era that was laid out in January in a commentary in The Wall Street Journal written by several former government officials. The authors of the article were George P. Shultz, secretary of state in the Reagan administration; Henry Kissinger, secretary of state in the Nixon and Ford administrations; William J. Perry, secretary of defense in the Clinton administration; and Sam Nunn, a former chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee
janine9539
10-02-2007, 01:05 PM
is he serious with this:disappoin
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 01:09 PM
guy is a joke when it comes to dealing with islamic fundamentalists..he wants to have a sit and chat with arminaJIHAD ..no conditions or concessions just a good ole debate lol!!!
John Kennedy
10-02-2007, 01:10 PM
Jamez, Janine, did you even read the article?
His speech was to come one day after an announcement by the Bush administration that it had tripled the rate of dismantling nuclear weapons over the last year, putting the United States on track to reducing its stockpile of weapons by half by 2012.
The exact number of weapons being dismantled, like the overall stockpile, is secret, but officials said Monday that with the planned reductions, the total number of American nuclear weapons would be at the lowest levels since Dwight D. Eisenhower was president.
This is a concensus across the board and it makes sense. How do you increase your stockpiles while telling other countries to do the opposite, and expect them to listen to you?
Defekted
10-02-2007, 01:12 PM
In a speech at DePaul University in Chicago, Mr. Obama will add his voice to a plan endorsed earlier this year by a bipartisan group of former government officials from the cold war era who say the United States must begin building a global consensus to reverse a reliance on nuclear weapons that have become “increasingly hazardous and decreasingly effective.”
this is the type of leadership and thinking we NEED in office, instead of making plans to fight a THIRD war in the middle east by a bunch of pussies who deffered when they were called to fight, we could be showing the world our new approach of reconciliation and mutual respect. We have a stockpile to destroy every planet in this solar system, what the fuck for?
Defekted
10-02-2007, 01:14 PM
Jamez, Janine, did you even read the article?
This is a concensus across the board and it makes sense. How do you increase your stockpiles while telling other countries to do the opposite, and expect them to listen to you?
exactly right JK. Biggest hippocrates
John Kennedy
10-02-2007, 01:18 PM
Plus I don't understand how you could post an article without reading past the 1st paragraph lol
TheHipHopBillGates
10-02-2007, 01:21 PM
let me pose a question, is muslim control of nuclear weapons that serious an issue, should the WASP's be the only ones with that bargaining chip? The Skull & Bones Nuclear Party????
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 01:27 PM
let me pose a question, is muslim control of nuclear weapons that serious an issue, should the WASP's be the only ones with that bargaining chip? The Skull & Bones Nuclear Party????
Wasps? lol ..we have an italian catholic, a mormon, black man, and a woman as front runners ??? what country you living in son? .. besides bush has appointed more blacks and hispanics to positions of power than carter and clinton combined ..
Are you telling me iran having a nuke is not a serious issue..this is why you guys are so easy to ridicule because you have absolutly no understanding of the dangers of islamic fundamentalism ..
Benny B
10-02-2007, 01:32 PM
FYI. Russia has the LARGEST stockpile of nuclear weapons...
as for telling people what they can or cannot do. and then go and building ours... i disagree with the primise of being a hypocrite.. but at the same time i agree with it.. only due to the fact that we have had these weapons for 50+ years.. we have shown we will not use them carelessly. when you have these countries trying to build and aquire nuclear weapons who in the same sentence say they want to wipe a country off the map i absolutely agree that we should not allow them to build and seek these weapons..
TheHipHopBillGates
10-02-2007, 01:36 PM
Wasps? lol ..we have an italian catholic, a mormon, black man, and a woman as front runners ??? what country you living in son? .. besides bush has appointed more blacks and hispanics to positions of power than carter and clinton combined ..
Are you telling me iran having a nuke is not a serious issue..this is why you guys are so easy to ridicule because you have absolutly no understanding of the dangers of islamic fundamentalism ..
that'll mean something to me when they get elected, you forget that not only did they wack the only catholic president, but they wacked his brother too..........bush just appointed people for business reasons strictly.
I'm not saying I'm for Iran having a nuke, I felt that Iran was more of a concern then Iraq with Saddam, I'm just posing a question.......
TheHipHopBillGates
10-02-2007, 01:38 PM
FYI. Russia has the LARGEST stockpile of nuclear weapons...
as for telling people what they can or cannot do. and then go and building ours... i disagree with the primise of being a hypocrite.. but at the same time i agree with it.. only due to the fact that we have had these weapons for 50+ years.. we have shown we will not use them carelessly. when you have these countries trying to build and aquire nuclear weapons who in the same sentence say they want to wipe a country off the map i absolutely agree that we should not allow them to build and seek these weapons..
using them on japan wasn't careless? the war was almost over, Truman just wanted to show his might.........and thats well documented.
janine9539
10-02-2007, 01:38 PM
Jamez, Janine, did you even read the article?
This is a concensus across the board and it makes sense. How do you increase your stockpiles while telling other countries to do the opposite, and expect them to listen to you?
i read it but i do not feel confident enough that other countries will.
not to mention all the ones that are traded illegally
CraftyVet16
10-02-2007, 01:40 PM
guy is a joke when it comes to dealing with islamic fundamentalists..he wants to have a sit and chat with arminaJIHAD ..no conditions or concessions just a good ole debate lol!!!
do you know that arminajihad is not even the #1 guy there, and you idiots vilafied this guy, his trip here was a great oppurtunity for us to reall reach the majority of irans population who believe it or not do not like this regime at all, and are very westernized people. but instead the moron president of columbia invites him and the attacks him.. sorry to tell you but president bush has alot more american blood on his hands then anyone
the one country in the middle east that a majority of the people would like a democracy is IRAN. and we had a golden oppurtunity to appeal to them when he was here and we blew it.
as for the article, so u are saying we need to stop everyone from building nukes but keep all of ours... yeah that works....
TheHipHopBillGates
10-02-2007, 01:52 PM
do you know that arminajihad is not even the #1 guy there, and you idiots vilafied this guy, his trip here was a great oppurtunity for us to reall reach the majority of irans population who believe it or not do not like this regime at all, and are very westernized people. but instead the moron president of columbia invites him and the attacks him.. sorry to tell you but president bush has alot more american blood on his hands then anyone
the one country in the middle east that a majority of the people would like a democracy is IRAN. and we had a golden oppurtunity to appeal to them when he was here and we blew it.
as for the article, so u are saying we need to stop everyone from building nukes but keep all of ours... yeah that works....
he's a puppet that flys off at the mouth, that country is controlled by the religious, the guy from Columbia got him a few more fans though, nothing like bashing the guy before he even started speaking, how foolish, ridicule him in debate if you must.
John Kennedy
10-02-2007, 01:52 PM
Wasps? lol ..we have an italian catholic, a mormon, black man, and a woman as front runners ??? what country you living in son? .. besides bush has appointed more blacks and hispanics to positions of power than carter and clinton combined ..
Are you telling me iran having a nuke is not a serious issue..this is why you guys are so easy to ridicule because you have absolutly no understanding of the dangers of islamic fundamentalism ..
So what do you think about Bush going forward with decreasing our stockpile of nukes by 2012? Why is Obama wrong but no mention of the man you support who agrees with him?
Jamez, janine, do you think that decreasing nukes to a couple of thousand means it will increase our chance of getting nuked? Instead of it being played as a bargaining chip for getting other countries to decrease or cease production of their own stockpiles?
THINK.
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 02:26 PM
So what do you think about Bush going forward with decreasing our stockpile of nukes by 2012? Why is Obama wrong but no mention of the man you support who agrees with him?
Jamez, janine, do you think that decreasing nukes to a couple of thousand means it will increase our chance of getting nuked? Instead of it being played as a bargaining chip for getting other countries to decrease or cease production of their own stockpiles?
THINK.
we dont know how many its secret.. im sure we will have enough to do major damage.. thats alot different than calling for an international ban that everyone will laugh at
TheHipHopBillGates
10-02-2007, 02:29 PM
we dont know how many its secret.. im sure we will have enough to do major damage.. thats alot different than calling for an international ban that everyone will laugh at
Iran definitely has WMD's George Bush & Judith Miller told me so, lets go get them. Maybe we could put an Exxon right at the Strait of Hormuz.
Benny B
10-02-2007, 02:36 PM
using them on japan wasn't careless? the war was almost over, Truman just wanted to show his might.........and thats well documented.
the outcome of that war you can say it now because we all can sit here and look at the past and decide was it right or wrong.. If we didnt drop them do we know if the war would have ended??? Nobody will ever know for certain if it would have or not.. to say the war was coming to an end, you really cant say that because all it takes is one lil action to spur the war into high gear again. So YES i think the U.S. has been careful with them since we have had them.
TheHipHopBillGates
10-02-2007, 02:38 PM
the outcome of that war you can say it now because we all can sit here and look at the past and decide was it right or wrong.. If we didnt drop them do we know if the war would have ended??? Nobody will ever know for certain if it would have or not.. to say the war was coming to an end, you really cant say that because all it takes is one lil action to spur the war into high gear again. So YES i think the U.S. has been careful with them since we have had them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_over_the_atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_N agasaki
Benny B
10-02-2007, 02:42 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_over_the_atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_N agasaki
too long for me to read right now.. but like i said.. its easy to look back on the past and say.. well we should have done this or we should have done that... whats done is done... we used the weapons in a war to end the war.. yes i do believe we also used them to make a statement.. and yes we did.. But like I said.. we have had these weapons for 50 + years. We have shown we do not use them just because we decide we wanna take a country off the planet. I.E. Iran speaking of Isreal. They want these weapons to be offensive and do the most amount of damage possible.
TheHipHopBillGates
10-02-2007, 02:47 PM
too long for me to read right now.. but like i said.. its easy to look back on the past and say.. well we should have done this or we should have done that... whats done is done... we used the weapons in a war to end the war.. yes i do believe we also used them to make a statement.. and yes we did.. But like I said.. we have had these weapons for 50 + years. We have shown we do not use them just because we decide we wanna take a country off the planet. I.E. Iran speaking of Isreal. They want these weapons to be offensive and do the most amount of damage possible.
That's a cop out, so can we drop a Nuke on Iraq and 5 years later just say well it was easy to look back on the past and say........to me Iran's threat to wipe Israel off the map is hollow, if they did have nuclear weapons I don't think they'd need to make the thread, I chalk it up to the kid who gets beat up by the bully everyday at school who wishes that motherfucker would die, he moves away or you get bigger all of a sudden you don't want him to die anymore, its something said out of despair.
John Kennedy
10-02-2007, 02:47 PM
we dont know how many its secret.. im sure we will have enough to do major damage.. thats alot different than calling for an international ban that everyone will laugh at
That makes no sense.. you're for putting is into another cold war? The era that you praise your idol (Reagan) for ending? You think we should increase or decrease? That's all I want an answer to. The treaty Bush signed says to decrease to around 2000. You think we should go the opposite direction and increase?
You criticized Obama for saying nukes should be eliminated around the world and the U.S. should significantly decrease their stockpiles... but this is the direction that there is a concensus on and the guy you support (Bush) agrees. So tell me where the "rookie mistake" is?
Iran definitely has WMD's George Bush & Judith Miller told me so, lets go get them. Maybe we could put an Exxon right at the Strait of Hormuz.
LOL i just noticed your new sig
:applaud :LOL
Wasps? lol ..we have an italian catholic, a mormon, black man, and a woman as front runners ??? what country you living in son? .. besides bush has appointed more blacks and hispanics to positions of power than carter and clinton combined ..
Are you telling me iran having a nuke is not a serious issue..this is why you guys are so easy to ridicule because you have absolutly no understanding of the dangers of islamic fundamentalism ..
1) how are they all front runners??
2) running isn't "winning". who you allow to run and who you elect/allow to lead are very diff things. finally having some diversity in the POOL in fkin 2007 really isn't a record to brag about.
3) why do you always say that anyone who disagrees w/ you has "absolutely no understanding" of the topic at hand? it's just a ridiculous thing to think that ONLY YOU, and those that entirely agree w/ you, KNOW anything about anything.
that is precisely george bush's attitude jamez and you exemplify that ignorance a lot. why? Even I realize that there are plenty of ppl who KNOW SHIT, but disagree w/ me. Just b/c you don't share my point of view doesn't mean I think you're completely ignorant. that's the height of stupidity and it gets you nowhere.
he's a puppet that flys off at the mouth, that country is controlled by the religious, the guy from Columbia got him a few more fans though, nothing like bashing the guy before he even started speaking, how foolish, ridicule him in debate if you must.
public speaking is a quality that no one seemed to find necessary for any of the members of this admin to have, nevermind skills related to diplomacy, negotiation, debate or anything of that nature.:rolleyes:
CraftyVet16
10-02-2007, 03:34 PM
That makes no sense.. you're for putting is into another cold war? The era that you praise your idol (Reagan) for ending? You think we should increase or decrease? That's all I want an answer to. The treaty Bush signed says to decrease to around 2000. You think we should go the opposite direction and increase?
You criticized Obama for saying nukes should be eliminated around the world and the U.S. should significantly decrease their stockpiles... but this is the direction that there is a concensus on and the guy you support (Bush) agrees. So tell me where the "rookie mistake" is?
praise ronald reagan for ending, thats all he did was end it.... all the ground work was done by carter and reagan got all the credit which is a joke in itself
John Kennedy
10-02-2007, 03:35 PM
praise ronald reagan for ending, thats all he did was end it.... all the ground work was done by carter and reagan got all the credit which is a joke in itself
lets not get too complex, i'm looking for one single straight answer... one miracle at a time lol
Defekted
10-02-2007, 03:49 PM
http://www.newyorker.com/services/referral?messageKey=28e12154dc0859614e202f49e98d6e b8
James Maxx
10-02-2007, 03:57 PM
He says eliminating all nukes worldwide not just the USA.
lets not get too complex, i'm looking for one single straight answer... one miracle at a time lol
sometimes you really do seem like the eternal optimist lol
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 04:22 PM
public speaking is a quality that no one seemed to find necessary for any of the members of this admin to have, nevermind skills related to diplomacy, negotiation, debate or anything of that nature.:rolleyes:
did you read about the 15 year old boy who was hung in afghanistan for having american dollar bills in his possession ..the suicide bombing in pakistan this week? these people are fuckin animals they are insane ..and when people wanna negoiate with them they wanna use reason and logic..but these people do not possess that reasoning ..i see for my own eyes the culture of death and celebration of martyrdom in islamic fundamentalism..thats why i feel you have to take an extremly aggressive hard nose approach ..they only respect strentgh ..were tried appeasement during clinton and got bombed more and more
did you read about the 15 year old boy who was hung in afghanistan for having american dollar bills in his possession ..the suicide bombing in pakistan this week? these people are fuckin animals they are insane ..and when people wanna negoiate with them they wanna use reason and logic..but these people do not possess that reasoning ..i see for my own eyes the culture of death and celebration of martyrdom in islamic fundamentalism..thats why i feel you have to take an extremly aggressive hard nose approach ..they only respect strentgh ..were tried appeasement during clinton and got bombed more and more
and just to clarify, by "these people" you mean who exactly?
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 04:27 PM
and just to clarify, by "these people" you mean who exactly?
islamic fundamentalist's i said it in my post ?
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 04:28 PM
and just to clarify, by "these people" you mean who exactly?
..but these people do not possess that reasoning ..i see for my own eyes the culture of death and celebration of martyrdom in islamic fundamentalism..
islamic fundamentalist's i said it in my post ?
Not in your last one, no. I might assume that, but w/ you sometimes you never know lol
..but these people do not possess that reasoning ..i see for my own eyes the culture of death and celebration of martyrdom in islamic fundamentalism..
I think fundamentalists choose not to reason, b/c reason is drawing conclusions based upon evidence and if they are acting on religious motivations, religion isn't backed by evidence. It's faith based. Text telling you to kill infidels is not evidence that you will reap the benefits of doing so, so no, they are not "reasonable" as I understand the word.
You should really back away from terms like " culture of death" b/c they're bullshit terms made up by george & co that oversimplify and dumb down very intricate situations. there is no "axis of evil", or "evildoers", or "culture of life" vs "culture of death". There is good and bad in everyone and everything and pretending that it's good vs. bad, black and white, is doing nobody any good. least of all us. it's fodder for retards to be honest.
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 04:36 PM
Not in your last one, no. I might assume that, but w/ you sometimes you never know lol
what would give you that idea?? i post articles by pro western muslims consistantly.. im a supporter of lebanon, kuwait, pakistan (although pakistan we need to be very careful with) ...not nice to imply someones a racist because they despise islamic fundamentalism :heythere
did you read about the 15 year old boy who was hung in afghanistan for having american dollar bills in his possession ..the suicide bombing in pakistan this week? these people are fuckin animals they are insane ..and when people wanna negoiate with them they wanna use reason and logic..but these people do not possess that reasoning ..i see for my own eyes the culture of death and celebration of martyrdom in islamic fundamentalism..thats why i feel you have to take an extremly aggressive hard nose approach ..they only respect strentgh ..were tried appeasement during clinton and got bombed more and more
There are def. insane, fanatical fundamentalists of the muslim variety that pose a legit threat to us, this is no secret. But being careless about who we throw that term on is only going to backfire on us. You cannot fight an ideology with force, you can't eradicate a mind-set that people reach due to x,y,z factors in the world w/o addressing x,y,z. Until we address what has created and perpetuated this threat we're fucked. We can't fight every lunatic, we can't wipe the earth clean of every fundamentalist who might be prone to strapping a bomb on or opposing freedom in their country. You say negotiating w/ them is useless, I say what good is killing a portion of them going to do except antagonize? We have to protect ourselves, and take out targets (like osama) when we can, but basing our whole policy on force and dismissing other means is foolish as hell.
you cannot fight your way out of this.
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 04:40 PM
I think fundamentalists choose not to reason, b/c reason is drawing conclusions based upon evidence and if they are acting on religious motivations, religion isn't backed by evidence. It's faith based. Text telling you to kill infidels is not evidence that you will reap the benefits of doing so, so no, they are not "reasonable" as I understand the word.
You should really back away from terms like " culture of death" b/c they're bullshit terms made up by george & co that oversimplify and dumb down very intricate situations. there is no "axis of evil", or "evildoers", or "culture of life" vs "culture of death". There is good and bad in everyone and everything and pretending that it's good vs. bad, black and white, is doing nobody any good. least of all us. it's fodder for retards to be honest.
did george bush create a culture that celebrates martyrdom? ..unfortunatly within islamic fundamentalism DEATH is celebrated, martyrdom is the ultimate sacrifice its an honor, that why children have school plays in the second grade all tfrough out palestine celebrating the death of israel and infidels, its ingrained in their cartoons, did you miss the al qeada videos when nick berg was decapitated?? why do they allways kill INNOCENT CIVILIANS.. what on earth does this have to do with bush??
what would give you that idea?? i post articles by pro western muslims consistantly.. im a supporter of lebanon, kuwait, pakistan (although pakistan we need to be very careful with) ...not nice to imply someones a racist because they despise islamic fundamentalism :heythere
Imply you're a racist? :hmmm
I asked for clarification about who the hell you were talking about before I responded to your post. Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.
Yea, I'm a real asshole lol
Defekted
10-02-2007, 04:43 PM
these people are fuckin animals they are insane
what a wonderful generalization.....
so going to war with the country of IRAN or IRAQ is helping us with these "animals"???
Did ahmadinijad sanction the hanging or the suicide bombing? Did he order it?
You dont think for a second that these government fear the hardcore, true terrorist radicals more than we do?
You think these radicals are cabinet members that carry out stonings, hangings of children, and suicide bombings?????
they are done by radical individuals or groups of individuals, mostly from rural areas.... completely backwards and acting out their own village tribal laws.... and 9/10 when its found out by officials, the government EXECUTES THEM.....
so how does the actions by animals here and there warrant GOING TO FUCKING WAR WITH AN ENTIRE COUNTRY.... causing the deaths of tens to hundreds of thousands of people...... including our own.... and spending trillions......
its retarded.... little dogs always seem to bark the loudest.....so foolish.
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 04:46 PM
what a wonderful generalization.....
so going to war with the country of IRAN or IRAQ is helping us with these "animals"???
Did ahmadinijad sanction the hanging or the suicide bombing? Did he order it?
You dont think for a second that these government fear the hardcore, true terrorist radicals more than we do?
You these are cabinet members that carry out stonings, hangings of children, and suicide bombings?????
they are done by radical individuals or groups of individuals, mostly from rural areas.... completely backwards and acting out their own village tribal laws.... and 9/10 when its found out by officials, the government EXECUTES THEM.....
so how does the actions by animals here and there warrant GOING TO FUCKING WAR WITH AN ENTIRE COUNTRY.... causing the deaths of tens to hundreds of thousands of people...... including our own.... and spending trillions......
its retarded.... little dogs always seem to bark the loudest.....so foolish.
im discussing surgical strategic strikes on nuclear facilities not an invasion or act of war.. what thread are you reading lol
and yes islamic fundamentalists are animals, subhuman, savages, they posses no conscience..they murder women and babys for politcal gain ..the lowest form of life imaganable
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 04:48 PM
Not in your last one, no. I might assume that, but w/ you sometimes you never know lol
lol i didnt call you an asshole.. i thought you were implying something by this statement
did george bush create a culture that celebrates martyrdom? ..unfortunatly within islamic fundamentalism DEATH is celebrated, martyrdom is the ultimate sacrifice its an honor, that why children have school plays in the second grade all tfrough out palestine celebrating the death of israel and infidels, its ingrained in their cartoons, did you miss the al qeada videos when nick berg was decapitated?? why do they allways kill INNOCENT CIVILIANS.. what on earth does this have to do with bush??
These are details irrelevant to the point jamez. the point is, you cannot sum up any one country or person as good or bad, in a perfect little category. humans are imperfect and we are all capable of negative things, so also are the gov'ts and bodies we run. we can't possibly think we're the "good" guys and they're the "bad" ones just b/c the current admin decided it would best serve their purpose to attach that label. I'm not disputing that we're good, or that we don't have some seriously fucked up enemies, but I'm opposed to the direct labeling that STOPS people from further questioning the situation. They are not monsters, they are people that became how they are FOR REASONS we have to understand in order to protect ourselves against. i don't use the term "defeat" b/c I don't believe you can "defeat" fanaticism, extremism, or terrorism. You can just lessen their breeding ground.
by using those terms, you're oversimplifying which leads to misunderstanding and lack of critical thought. that is exactly what this admin strived for, achieved, and sustained itself on and it's dangerous.
lol i didnt call you an asshole.. i thought you were implying something by this statement
I wasn't implying, i was directly saying sometimes you come out w/ random shit I wouldn't EVER expect so before I go off on a tangent I'm gonna make damn sure I know wtf you're saying in the first place lol
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 04:55 PM
These are details irrelevant to the point jamez. the point is, you cannot sum up any one country or person as good or bad, in a perfect little category. humans are imperfect and we are all capable of negative things, so also are the gov'ts and bodies we run. we can't possibly think we're the "good" guys and they're the "bad" ones just b/c the current admin decided it would best serve their purpose to attach that label. I'm not disputing that we're good, or that we don't have some seriously fucked up enemies, but I'm opposed to the direct labeling that STOPS people from further questioning the situation. They are not monsters, they are people that became how they are FOR REASONS we have to understand in order to protect ourselves against. i don't use the term "defeat" b/c I don't believe you can "defeat" fanaticism, extremism, or terrorism. You can just lessen their breeding ground.
by using those terms, you're oversimplifying which leads to misunderstanding and lack of critical thought. that is exactly what this admin strived for, achieved, and sustained itself on and it's dangerous.
i dont think we are good because bush says we are ..
i think behavior is key..how we treat our women, citizens, illegals, muslims, etc .. i think fundamental human rights are not just good but natural ..of course theres bad people in america ..there good and bad everywhere..
I just think when oppression, anti-women practices, racism, the destruction of israel, jailing people for speech and expressiion is SPONSERD by a goverment is immoral dictatorships are immoral , but those are my personal beliefs ...you cant change bad people but you can replace bad evil goverments because there are many good people who want freedom all over the world
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 04:55 PM
I wasn't implying, i was directly saying sometimes you come out w/ random shit I wouldn't EVER expect so before I go off on a tangent I'm gonna make damn sure I know wtf you're saying in the first place lol
gotcha
Defekted
10-02-2007, 04:56 PM
im discussing surgical strategic strikes on nuclear facilities not an invasion or act of war.. what thread are you reading lol
perfect example of your shortsightedness.....
you think it stops at our nice and neat bombings of their nuclear sites? L - O - L
Thats not even act 1 in a 50 act play that we will be watching.....
and the finale is SPECTACUALR from what I heard, it'll shock and awe the audience..... 4 coconuts!
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 04:57 PM
perfect example of your shortsightedness.....
you think it stops at our nice and neat bombings of their nuclear sites? L - O - L
Thats not even act 1 in a 50 act play that we will be watching.....
and the finale is SPECTACUALR from what I heard, it'll shock and awe the audience..... 4 coconuts!
israel / iraq 1980 ...study up son
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 04:58 PM
perfect example of your shortsightedness.....
you think it stops at our nice and neat bombings of their nuclear sites? L - O - L
Thats not even act 1 in a 50 act play that we will be watching.....
and the finale is SPECTACUALR from what I heard, it'll shock and awe the audience..... 4 coconuts!
your thoughts on the 15 year old hanged in public (afhanistan) for having american money??
and yes islamic fundamentalists are animals, subhuman, savages, they posses no conscience..they murder women and babys for politcal gain ..the lowest form of life imaganable
we slaughtered the indians: women, babies, men alike in order to steal their land for our economic and political gain. are we the lowest form of life imaginable?
your thoughts on the 15 year old hanged in public (afhanistan) for having american money??
and your thoughts on any of the hate crimes in america?? are they indicative of us as a collective people, our values and views?
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 05:02 PM
and your thoughts on any of the hate crimes in america?? are they indicative of us as a collective people, our values and views?
hate crimes are not celebrated like martyrdom, we do not promote racist cartoons, text books, and school plays..thats a major difference
i dont think we are good because bush says we are ..
i think behavior is key..how we treat our women, citizens, illegals, muslims, etc .. i think fundamental human rights are not just good but natural ..of course theres bad people in america ..there good and bad everywhere..
I just think when oppression, anti-women practices, racism, the destruction of israel, jailing people for speech and expressiion is SPONSERD by a goverment is immoral dictatorships are immoral , but those are my personal beliefs ...you cant change bad people but you can replace bad evil goverments because there are many good people who want freedom all over the world
yes, i agree w/ what i bolded, but our idea of freedom isn't everyone's. granted nobody wants to be tortured or killed, but beyond that "freedom" can mean different things to people w/ completely diff sets of values, views, etc.
it's hard to compare our society to a muslim one b/c separation of church and state is not inherent there. not likely either. too many factors.
hate crimes are not celebrated like martyrdom, we do not promote racist cartoons, text books, and school plays..thats a major difference
i didn't say there weren't differences, my comparison was just to say you cannot define a country of people and their views by its various crimes. it's not accurate to pick out the extreme incidents and point to them.
Defekted
10-02-2007, 05:18 PM
israel / iraq 1980 ...study up son
you think Iran is Iraq of 1980 son? lmao.....
you know less than i thought.
I still want an answer on my indians comment. We brutalized those people through every horrible tactic possible, i want to know why we get a pass.
Defekted
10-02-2007, 05:27 PM
your thoughts on the 15 year old hanged in public (afhanistan) for having american money??
there is nothing to think about.... its terrible, and im sure the people that did it get executed for doing so by the government if they were caught...
just like the villagers that stone girls suspected of adultry, they get executed for doing so......
these are tribal lunatics.... but again a very small minority.... 99.9% of muslims dont do that shit....
you know how many rediculous shit happens here in the states? look at that couple that kept a black girl in their trailer and raped and tortured her for weeks.... sick shit happens everywhere, anytime.
You like to take these one off stories and spin it to make it look like we will be hanged in times sq if we dont act fast and bomb these fuckers.... but again you fail to realize that bombing those fuckers (a country that is probably more western than any other country in the ME, and who has a population less than happy about their current leadership, and who HAS nothing to do with little boy hangings) will cause the deaths of perhaps hundreds of thousands......
its a clear result of someone reading too much right wing chicken hawk articles and not spending a single hour in harms way...... youll change your tune if you had to go to Iran and carry out these missions thats making your dick hard right now. TRUST ME.
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 06:02 PM
there is nothing to think about.... its terrible, and im sure the people that did it get executed for doing so by the government if they were caught...
just like the villagers that stone girls suspected of adultry, they get executed for doing so......
these are tribal lunatics.... but again a very small minority.... 99.9% of muslims dont do that shit....
you know how many rediculous shit happens here in the states? look at that couple that kept a black girl in their trailer and raped and tortured her for weeks.... sick shit happens everywhere, anytime.
You like to take these one off stories and spin it to make it look like we will be hanged in times sq if we dont act fast and bomb these fuckers.... but again you fail to realize that bombing those fuckers (a country that is probably more western than any other country in the ME, and who has a population less than happy about their current leadership, and who HAS nothing to do with little boy hangings) will cause the deaths of perhaps hundreds of thousands......
its a clear result of someone reading too much right wing chicken hawk articles and not spending a single hour in harms way...... youll change your tune if you had to go to Iran and carry out these missions thats making your dick hard right now. TRUST ME.
point went right over your head..he was hung in PUBLIC.. the poor black girl was kept hidden because passerbys would have helped her ..get it
point went right over your head..he was hung in PUBLIC.. the poor black girl was kept hidden because passerbys would have helped her ..get it
THAT'S your point? the public factor? why would passersby help anyone if they fear for their lives themselves?? you think the fact this took place in public is the sticking point here??
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 06:04 PM
I still want an answer on my indians comment. We brutalized those people through every horrible tactic possible, i want to know why we get a pass.
WE?? my family was in europe until the early 1900's lol ...as for back in the day yes theyre were many white euro savage subhuman barbarians..
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 06:06 PM
THAT'S your point? the public factor? why would passersby help anyone if they fear for their lives themselves?? you think the fact this took place in public is the sticking point here??
no just the reason he was killed like this is insanity!!! as for being in public yes because its condoned...trying hanging a kid in public here see what happens to you... we dont celebtrate death.. where were the decent people
WE?? my family was in europe until the early 1900's lol ...as for back in the day yes theyre were many white euro savage subhuman barbarians..
yes, WE, americans. the very people that established and founded our country were capable of complete savagery and terrorism, yet you don't seem to hold them in the same regard as the terrorists you speak of today. why are you differentiating yourself? we abused indians, blacks, chinese, WOMEN, all for political purposes, all through violence and intimidation yet you're mr patriotic.
you wash your hands of your country's history b/c you yourself did not partake in it directly? i'm just trying to give you some perspective, i'm not saying we're on par w/ these people in every regard, but try to think more broadly.
metfan85
10-02-2007, 06:09 PM
using them on japan wasn't careless? the war was almost over, Truman just wanted to show his might.........and thats well documented.
you wouldnt be saying that if you were one of the half million boys that would have been sent to their deaths during the invasion of japan , and thats well documented
we dont celebtrate death.. where were the decent people
we don't? have you seen tv/video games/music videos/ and or movies?
we certainly aren't conveying that idea either by instigating wars resulting in huge amts of civilian deaths.
you wouldnt be saying that if you were one of the half million boys that would have been sent to their deaths during the invasion of japan , and thats well documented
yea, those poor guys so any action we take is justified b/c we lost valuable lives. :disgusted no responsibility for excessive use of force. ridiculous, it's ok to toss away 60k lives in vietnam for bullshit, thousands of american lives in iraq for bullshit, but god forbid our soldiers died FOR A REASON in WW2.
bout the last war where anybody died for a reason that was worth a damn.
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 06:14 PM
yes, WE, americans. the very people that established and founded our country were capable of complete savagery and terrorism, yet you don't seem to hold them in the same regard as the terrorists you speak of today. why are you differentiating yourself? we abused indians, blacks, chinese, WOMEN, all for political purposes, all through violence and intimidation yet you're mr patriotic.
you wash your hands of your country's history b/c you yourself did not partake in it directly?
but we corrected ourselves through free speech, citizens rights to vote, to protest, abolished slavery, free to worship any god we please.. we are progressive, we have evolved through human rights, morals, values, and just having a Good conscience.. thats why the kkk are nothing today they are ridiculed, the nazis and facists fell in europe, the communists also fell in europe,
As for me partaking in it again my family arrived 5 centuries later..i said yes those early white euros were barbarians, the vikings were brutal, the crusades etc
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 06:17 PM
we don't? have you seen tv/video games/music videos/ and or movies?
we certainly aren't conveying that idea either by instigating wars resulting in huge amts of civilian deaths.
we have the ability to wipe countries out ..but we dont ..we minimize civilian deaths ..we drop flyers warning to evacuate etc..we drop food, water, medical supplies .. big difference
Defekted
10-02-2007, 06:18 PM
point went right over your head..he was hung in PUBLIC.. the poor black girl was kept hidden because passerbys would have helped her ..get it
thats your response to my post? what the hell does this have to do with bombins IRAN!!!!!!!!!!
Was this done by the US backed Afghani government???, lol .... highly doubt it.... it was probably done by crazy villagers/taliban radical (assuming since I dont know the story)
stop making this look like its rampant all over the muslim world....these are disgusting occurances that happened....
not a valid reason to go to war WITH A COUNTRY, no less a COUNTRY THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR FUCKING EXAMPLE TO BEGIN WITH.....
you think you are talking to second graders? the post fools you and you think you can fool us in turn.... give me a break.... never that!
but we corrected ourselves through free speech, citizens rights to vote, to protest, abolished slavery, free to worship any god we please.. we are progressive, we have evolved through human rights, morals, values, and just having a Good conscience.. thats why the kkk are nothing today they are ridiculed, the nazis and facists fell in europe, the communists also fell in europe,
As for me partaking in it again my family arrived 5 centuries later..i said yes those early white euros were barbarians, the vikings were brutal, the crusades etc
buddy i was talking about the indians and forward, not ancient times lol
so you basically think that kind of behavior is correctable, redeemable? that we're different people even though we're capable of the same actions? you're saying we're more "evolved"?
I personally don't find any fundamentalist any more "evolved" than another.
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 06:20 PM
thats your response to my post? what the hell does this have to do with bombins IRAN!!!!!!!!!!
Was this done by the US backed Afghani government???, lol .... highly doubt it.... it was probably done by crazy villagers/taliban radical (assuming since I dont know the story)
stop making this look like its rampant all over the muslim world....these are disgusting occurances that happened....
not a valid reason to go to war WITH A COUNTRY, no less a COUNTRY THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR FUCKING EXAMPLE TO BEGIN WITH.....
you think you are talking to second graders? the post fools you and you think you can fool us in turn.... give me a break.... never that!
oh thats right iran didnt hang those other 2 teenage boys for american money ..they hanged them in public for being gay!! .. insanity, subhuman, savagery .. best words to describe societys like that
we have the ability to wipe countries out ..but we dont ..we minimize civilian deaths ..we drop flyers warning to evacuate etc..we drop food, water, medical supplies .. big difference
but we still celebrate and glorify death. that was the point.
oh thats right iran didnt hang those other 2 teenage boys for american money ..they hanged them in public for being gay!! .. insanity, subhuman, savagery .. best words to describe societys like that
we beat gays to death here too, heck, we have a whole party that'd probably be thrilled to death if they all offed themselves.
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 06:30 PM
we beat gays to death here too, heck, we have a whole party that'd probably be thrilled to death if they all offed themselves.
really?? what party is that? the kkk ..lol ..last time i checked we havent hanged a gay person in public in centuries..
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 06:32 PM
but we still celebrate and glorify death. that was the point.
no we dont or we would drop a nuke ..and then celebrate like they did in the middle east on streets on 9/11...big difference
really?? what party is that? the kkk ..lol ..last time i checked we havent hanged a gay person in public in centuries..
people beat gay people to death here, I didn't say the gov't or a party did.
i said we have a party that would be glad if they offed themselves, i didn't say they would DO IT. there would be a sizable amt of conservative christians in the republican party, and out i suppose, who would not shed a tear if every homosexual in this nation put a bullet in their head. good riddance they'd say.
am I somehow unclear?
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 06:33 PM
people beat gay people to death here, I didn't say the gov't or a party did.
i said we have a party that would be glad if they offed themselves, i didn't say they would DO IT.
am I somehow unclear?
what party are you talking about and back it up with facts..
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 06:36 PM
people beat gay people to death here, I didn't say the gov't or a party did.
i said we have a party that would be glad if they offed themselves, i didn't say they would DO IT. there would be a sizable amt of conservative christians in the republican party, and out i suppose, who would not shed a tear if every homosexual in this nation put a bullet in their head. good riddance they'd say.
am I somehow unclear?
dont worry i promise you no gays will be hanged in public during christmas season lol!!.. there is one group the gays need to fear & thats the group who kills them
no we dont or we would drop a nuke ..and then celebrate like they did in the middle east on streets on 9/11...big difference
jamez, why when I make a comparison do you insist on debating it by offering ANY difference? making a comparison doesn't mean two things are EXACTLY the same, it's examining the similarities that DO exist for perception.
you do not need to point out to me the fact that differences exist in the scenarios I lay out, I'm not trying to say they don't. I'm asking you to examine wtf I've isolated.
we are not so different and painting them as "bad" and us as "good" and them as "savages" while we attempt in no way to understand their mentality is FOOLISH. Blowing them up will not teach them NOT to blow us up, it will perpetuate it. Kissing their asses will not help either, the situation has reached a critical point where we need a combination of delicate approaches not brute force OR blind appeasement.
dont worry i promise you no gays will be hanged in public during christmas season lol!!.. there is one group the gays need to fear & thats the group who kills them
:disgusted
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 06:40 PM
jamez, why when I make a comparison do you insist on debating it by offering ANY difference? making a comparison doesn't mean two things are EXACTLY the same, it's examining the similarities that DO exist for perception.
you do not need to point out to me the fact that differences exist in the scenarios I lay out, I'm not trying to say they don't. I'm asking you to examine wtf I've isolated.
we are not so different and painting them as "bad" and us as "good" and them as "savages" while we attempt in no way to understand their mentality is FOOLISH. Blowing them up will not teach them NOT to blow us up, it will perpetuate it. Kissing their asses will not help either, the situation has reached a critical point where we need a combination of delicate approaches not brute force OR blind appeasement.
thats exactly what petraeus is doing in iraq.. thats why i dont support killing iranians.surgical strikes on nuclear facilities ..israel did it in 1980...clinton did it in 98 ..
what party are you talking about and back it up with facts..
facts?? the bible. their religion. christians, particularly those in the republican party, would enjoy the absence of homosexuals in our society.
you dispute that? by their vitriol and hate for homsexuals, YOU DOUBT that they would want a society free of them? they REVILE them, are disgusted by them, disown them, and they call them abominations from god.
gee, i wonder where i get the notion they don't want them around.
thats exactly what petraeus is doing in iraq.. thats why i dont support killing iranians.surgical strikes on nuclear facilities ..israel did it in 1980...clinton did it in 98 ..
petraeus is military only, the political situation in iraq is abysmal at best, we're operating on one level and that doesn't cut it.
and it's for bullshit anyway, i would not have started a war to free the iraqi people or give them some semblance of "democracy". this is of course, in hindsight, b/c we were all told we were going to war to defend ourselves from the big scary weapons saddam had pointed at our heads .
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 06:47 PM
facts?? the bible. their religion. christians, particularly those in the republican party, would enjoy the absence of homosexuals in our society.
you dispute that? by their vitriol and hate for homsexuals, YOU DOUBT that they would want a society free of them? they REVILE them, are disgusted by them, disown them, and they call them abominations from god.
gee, i wonder where i get the notion they don't want them around.
i dont see that hatred i dont know where your getting it from ..Most christians wants gays to repent and accept jesus ..they feel the act of homosexuality goes against nature and gods laws... alot of christians donate tons of money to aids victims..look at cardinal john oconnor our former archbishop here in nyc he had alot of compassion for gay people..thats the majority of christians in this country ..
Defekted
10-02-2007, 06:47 PM
no we dont or we would drop a nuke ..and then celebrate like they did in the middle east on streets on 9/11...big difference
you are really showing how dumb you are ... how many people were celebrating on the streets on 9/11?
how many people in the middle east went to mass candle light vigils at the US embassies???????
NYPost has rotten your brain man..... worse than any drug you can think of....
shame :disgusted
Btw, how many people were celebrating "shock and awe" the first few days of the Iraq war? those cool explosions on that little TV screen, we were "paying back" for 9/11, yee haw, givin it to them!!! as if these pathetic individuals know anything about bombs, destruction, and death..... pussies who love war from 60,000 miles away.... lmao
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 06:49 PM
petraeus is military only, the political situation in iraq is abysmal at best, we're operating on one level and that doesn't cut it.
and it's for bullshit anyway, i would not have started a war to free the iraqi people or give them some semblance of "democracy". this is of course, in hindsight, b/c we were all told we were going to war to defend ourselves from the big scary weapons saddam had pointed at our heads .
Nope your dead wrong about petraeus read his counter terrorism handbook ...he only 50% military ..the 50% is all about building alliances with the locals and tribe leaders, intergrating our troops to live amongst them .. how could you not know that
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 06:52 PM
you are really showing how dumb you are ... how many people were celebrating on the streets on 9/11?
how many people in the middle east went to mass candle light vigils at the US embassies???????
NYPost has rotten your brain man..... worse than any drug you can think of....
shame :disgusted
Btw, how many people were celebrating "shock and awe" the first few days of the Iraq war? those cool explosions on that little TV screen, we were "paying back" for 9/11, yee haw, givin it to them!!! as if this pathetic individuals know anything about bombs, destruction, and death..... pussies who love war from 60,000 miles away.... lmao
your right from now on ill read judith miller, jayson blair, and the racists reporters on the duke rape case.. great paper of record ..lol
Defekted
10-02-2007, 06:54 PM
your right from now on ill read judith miller, jayson blair, and the racists reporters on the duke rape case.. great paper of record ..lol
good job!
i want a article report once a week. :yipee
youll hate it at first, but its good for you, like vegetables.... youll be smart before you know it!
come from the dark side. trust me.
jameznyhc
10-02-2007, 07:00 PM
good job!
i want a article report once a week. :yipee
youll hate it at first, but its good for you, like vegetables.... youll be smart before you know it!
come from the dark side. trust me.
nothing like a good juicy story filled with fabrications and straighht out lies and smear campiagns ..ill stick to the post's accuracy
John Kennedy
10-02-2007, 07:07 PM
nothing like a good juicy story filled with fabrications and straighht out lies and smear campiagns ..ill stick to the post's accuracy
LOL... you're all fucked up
metfan85
10-02-2007, 07:42 PM
you are really showing how dumb you are ... how many people were celebrating on the streets on 9/11?
how many people in the middle east went to mass candle light vigils at the US embassies???????
NYPost has rotten your brain man..... worse than any drug you can think of....
shame :disgusted
Btw, how many people were celebrating "shock and awe" the first few days of the Iraq war? those cool explosions on that little TV screen, we were "paying back" for 9/11, yee haw, givin it to them!!! as if these pathetic individuals know anything about bombs, destruction, and death..... pussies who love war from 60,000 miles away.... lmao
all you had to do was be on francis lewis blvd on 9/11 to see the employees at the exxon off 17th ave celebrating
i dont see that hatred i dont know where your getting it from ..Most christians wants gays to repent and accept jesus ..they feel the act of homosexuality goes against nature and gods laws... alot of christians donate tons of money to aids victims..look at cardinal john oconnor our former archbishop here in nyc he had alot of compassion for gay people..thats the majority of christians in this country ..
while i know there are some that feel that way, I don't think it's the majority. it's easy for us to have an accepting view in new york. go outside and you get a huge wakeup call about how ignorant people can really be about this.
Nope your dead wrong about petraeus read his counter terrorism handbook ...he only 50% military ..the 50% is all about building alliances with the locals and tribe leaders, intergrating our troops to live amongst them .. how could you not know that
I do know that, but that's not the "political" means I'm referring to.
that's not the political end, he is a general. his end is military and alliances and dealings w/ local factions are a part of his job and his mission, but our GOV'T has a political end they must deal with and iraq has a political situation/gov't that has to be handled that isn't.
petraeus' work isn't fixing their gov't, it's helping his situation on the ground w/ security. nothing has changed in their political spectrum, or in our dealings on the gov'ts end. He has more skill than george, 100% diplomatically but he is not the diplomat and he cannot fix iraq's gov't.
youll hate it at first, but its good for you, like vegetables.... youll be smart before you know it!
.
:LOL
MikeyDubl
10-03-2007, 12:44 AM
Iran is a sophisticated country. It has a very strong middle class and a student population that is extremely unhappy with the government there and they arent silent about it...in fact they have a fairly free and liberal press. They are advanced technology wise in comparison to other middle eastern countries and have a positive view towards the US.
when you really look at it, the Iranians views towards America and its leaders views are kinda like our views towards the war and our presidents views
going in 2 different directions
Iran has bigger problems then shooting nukes. Progressively over the past 5 years the people of Iran have grown more and more upset with the leadership and have voiced these opinions.
like they said on bill Mahr...which btw I am not his biggest fan...but I agree with the last episode
the president of Iran saying he hates israel is like our conservatives saying homosexuality is ruining our country.....saying it just to appeal to a certain group....cuz just how there are powerful homosexuals in our country....Iran has jews in controlling positions of their government
but as for eliminating Nukes....I think that continuing to pump billions into this war over the past 4 years that money couldve been spent so much better.....I think becoming no longer dependent on foreign oil and investing in alternative fuel is a much bigger way to wage war and to hurt these countries that hurt us.....we are the 2nd biggest consumer behind China of foreign oil....just imagine how much money those blackmailing arabs would lose if we became no longer dependent on them for oil.....billions of our dollars go to these countries who use our dollars to supply terrorist organizations with the means to kill Americans and innocent civilians
I think we need to invest less in arming and building an arsonal and invest more time and money into bringing our troops home
I think we need to invest less in arming and building an arsonal and invest more time and money into bringing our troops home
:applaud
which is going to take forever anyway. getting all that material back and all the troops home is a huge undertaking.
darius
10-03-2007, 05:32 PM
thats exactly what petraeus is doing in iraq.. thats why i dont support killing iranians.surgical strikes on nuclear facilities ..israel did it in 1980...clinton did it in 98 ..
there is no way we could successfully beat or stifle iran militarily without the use of a WMD . . . not a chance in hell. as good as we are, i'm sorry, we're not THAT good. iran is not iraq -- don't ever make that confusion between the two, either strategically or taking greater middle-east perception into consideration. saddam was always viewed as an out & out thug by his neighbors. no one shed a tear for him when israel or clinton struck. iran is a completely different animal. just explain to me what the consolidation policy would be once surgical strikes were made against iran? walk me through the following days/months?
MikeyDubl
10-03-2007, 05:37 PM
Iran can have radical change in its government without the use of military force
a large majority of the people are pro change and are sick of the old strict muslim views
the reason they have the president they do is similar to why we have the president we do.....and the majorty of people in both nations do not approve of the ruling power...except Iran has more of the means and capability to forcibly remove their leader
Iran has jews in controlling positions of their government
Virtually all government entities (most sectors in Iran are government-owned) have a "Muslim only" policy and they print this requirement in their job notices in newspapers. This formal exclusion of Jews from large areas of employment is badly damaging..
This info was taken from the writings of Pooya Dayanim is president of the Iranian Jewish Public Affairs Committee (IJPAC).
MikeyDubl
10-03-2007, 05:53 PM
Jews by Iranian constitution have a reserved seat on the parliament for the past 100 years
Jews by Iranian constitution have a reserved seat on the parliament for the past 100 years
In theory maybe, but ever since The Islamic Revolution of 1979 made Sharia the legal code and therefore gender and religious discriminations are an integral part of the system. Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians each have one representative in the Parliament but since the authorities only employ Muslims and a ‘Sharia test’ is required, in reality these people are once again barred from working for the government.
There is plenty of material on descrimination against Iranian Jews in Iran, they are virtually second class citizens from laws to education to criminal punishment, but amadjihad will tell the world otherwise.
Defekted
10-03-2007, 07:12 PM
walk me through the following days/months?
thank you D... been asking this question for weeks now....
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