Iraq's oil profits are huge!

[admin]

WASHINGTON — Iraq has benefited handsomely from this year's surge in oil prices and is well-positioned financially to shoulder a greater share of its own economic and security needs, the U.S. government's accounting watchdog concluded in a report released Tuesday.

In its report on efforts to stabilize and reconstruct Iraq , the Government Accountability Office steered clear of the politics of who pays for what. But it left little doubt that Iraq , which racked up $32.9 billion in oil earnings from January through June, can afford to pay more for its own reconstruction.
The GAO estimates that Iraq will earn $67 billion to $79 billion in oil sales this year, twice the average annual amount of revenue that it generated from oil sales from 2005 through 2007. This windfall comes despite the fact that Iraq is still struggling to approach pre-invasion oil-production levels.
Record high oil prices mean that Iraq's government could post a budget surplus of more than $50 billion by year's end. From 2005 to 2007, oil exports provided 94 percent of the Iraqi government's revenues.
"This substantial increase in revenues offers the Iraqi government the potential to better finance its own security and finance needs," the GAO said.
The Iraqi government has run budget surpluses since 2005 that amounted to a cumulative $29.4 billion at the end of last year. Should oil prices remain high, Iraq could post a budget surplus for this year of $38.2 billion to $50.3 billion , GAO researchers concluded.
However, investment spending by the Iraqi ministries that are responsible for oil, water and electricity declined sharply from 2005 to 2007. The GAO said that Oil Ministry spending fell by an annual rate of 92 percent, Electricity Ministry spending by 93 percent and Water Ministry spending by 13 percent. All three ministries affect Iraqi citizens' quality of life and thus support for the struggling elected government.
While Iraq has amassed budget surpluses, the U.S. Congress has appropriated roughly $48 billion since 2003 for efforts to stabilize and reconstruct the invaded nation. As of this June, the GAO said, about $42 billion of that money had been spent.
Just 1 percent of what Iraq spent from 2005 through 2007 went toward expenditures such as maintaining U.S.- and Iraqi-funded investment in buildings, water supplies and power-generation facilities.
"The Iraqi government now has tens of billions of dollars at its disposal to fund large-scale reconstruction projects. It is inexcusable for U.S. taxpayers to continue to foot the bill for projects the Iraqis are fully capable of funding themselves," Sen. Carl Levin , D-Mich., said in a statement. "We should not be paying for Iraqi projects while Iraqi oil revenues continue to pile up in the bank, including outrageous profits from $4 a gallon gas prices in the U.S."
Levin, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee , requested the study in March, along with the ranking Republican on the panel, Virginia's John Warner . Warner joined Levin on Tuesday in bipartisan criticism of Iraqi budget practices.
"Despite Iraq earning billions of dollars in oil revenue in the past five years, U.S. taxpayer money has been the overwhelming source of Iraq reconstruction funds," Warner said. "It is time for the sovereign government of Iraq , using its revenues, expenditures and surpluses, to fully assume the responsibility to provide essential services and improve the quality of life for the Iraqi people."
Before the U.S.-led invasion in 2003, then-Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz declared that Iraq's oil proceeds would cover the cost of the war and the expense of rebuilding the country after Saddam Hussein was removed from power.
"To assume we're going to pay for it all is just wrong," Wolfowitz told the House Budget Committee on Feb. 28, 2003 .
The Bush administration didn't refute the GAO's assertions. In a request from the GAO for comment, Deputy Assistant Treasury Secretary Andy Baukol acknowledged that increased oil revenues put Iraq in a stronger position to shoulder its own burdens.
"Nonetheless, the pace of spending has been held back by various factors, including deficiencies in capacity and security," Baukol, the chief treasury official for the Middle East , said in a written response.
Iraq spent $10.8 billion this year through April, Baukol noted, twice what it spent in the same period last year. The Iraqi government submitted a supplemental budget to the nation's parliament in July, he added, and the proposal included $8 billion dedicated to capital projects.

[admin]

meanwhile, the U.S. is using more than 5,000 tanker trucks to haul JP-8 gas – a blended jet fuel that’s used to run both vehicles and aircraft – into Iraq. Last year alone American forces in Iraq burned through more than 1.1 billion gallons of fuel.
"In November 2006," says Bryce, "a study produced by the U.S. Military Academy estimated that delivering one gallon of fuel to U.S. soldiers in Iraq cost American taxpayers $42 – and that doesn’t include the costs of the fuel itself."
If John McCain is willing to stay in Iraq for 100 years (as he said he would), the oil bill to Americans will be $5.2 trillion.

[metfan85]

meanwhile, the U.S. is using more than 5,000 tanker trucks to haul JP-8 gas – a blended jet fuel that’s used to run both vehicles and aircraft – into Iraq. Last year alone American forces in Iraq burned through more than 1.1 billion gallons of fuel.
"In November 2006," says Bryce, "a study produced by the U.S. Military Academy estimated that delivering one gallon of fuel to U.S. soldiers in Iraq cost American taxpayers $42 – and that doesn’t include the costs of the fuel itself."
If John McCain is willing to stay in Iraq for 100 years (as he said he would), the oil bill to Americans will be $5.2 trillion.

Iraq should pay back every darned cent we spent on them in this stupid war with this oil.

[admin]

Iraq should pay back every darned cent we spent on them in this stupid war with this oil.

well thats what Donald Rumsfeld said 5 years ago, "the war will be paid for by Iraqi oil". The war cost over a trillian dollars so far, terrible!

[ShaE]

well thats what Donald Rumsfeld said 5 years ago, "the war will be paid for by Iraqi oil". The war cost over a trillian dollars so far, terrible!
he should be locked up on account of gross infuckingcompetence.
apparently he thought funding and a post-war plan were things he needn't be concerned about :rolleyes:

i don't think iraq should have to pay back what we spent on the war, they didn't ask us to come there and invade, they're not responsible for our retarded spending and our administration's stupid decision to start a war. we're stuck w/ it.

[JustLikeHeaven]

well thats what Donald Rumsfeld said 5 years ago, "the war will be paid for by Iraqi oil". The war cost over a trillian dollars so far, terrible!

WOW..sickening!

[ShaE]

WOW..sickening!
isn't it nice we put ourselves in the economic shithouse to "help" iraq, raising the price of oil in the process, funneling billions into the pockets of nations in the region we're claming wants our head on a platter?

hmm. that was bright lol
we fought terrorism by wiping out our cash, funding the terrorists, and setting our newly invaded iraq up with a nifty nest egg.

[JustLikeHeaven]

isn't it nice we put ourselves in the economic shithouse to "help" iraq, raising the price of oil in the process, funneling billions into the pockets of nations in the region we're claming wants our head on a platter?

hmm. that was bright lol
we fought terrorism by wiping out our cash, funding the terrorists, and setting our newly invaded iraq up with a nifty nest egg.

Seriously, I can't even fathom how McCain still has the amount of support that he does considering his plans for Iraq...haven't we learned anything these past 7 yrs :disgusted


Iraq should pay back every darned cent we spent on them in this stupid war with this oil.

This I can't reason with...why? They don't even want us there!!

[jameznyhc]

[QUOTE]Seriously, I can't even fathom how McCain still has the amount of support that he does considering his plans for Iraq...haven't we learned anything these past 7 yrs :disgusted

Simple McCain was 100% right about the surge and how to WIN a war he pushed for petraus .. not runaway in defeat .. Kerry was rejected by the american people in 04 ..just as Obama will be in 08 ..

This is why McCain ratings are 30 points higher than Bush's



This I can't reason with...why? They don't even want us there

then why hasnt maliki kicked us out? or set a timetable?? ..lol mre lies to discredit america... he also gave mostly american oil companies the contracts..why is that?? ..secondly we are coming home lol ..troops are leaving not being increased ..we'll see more reductions also because they now have met 15 out of 18 benchmarks ..they never could have met those with out the surge to stop the violence

[ShaE]

so wait, it's ok mccain was wrong about the war b/c he was right about the surge? lol that's supposed to inspire confidence in judgment?

[JustLikeHeaven]

Simple McCain was 100% right about the surge and how to WIN a war he pushed for petraus .. not runaway in defeat .. Kerry was rejected by the american people in 04 ..just as Obama will be in 08 ..

This is why McCain ratings are 30 points higher than Bush's




then why hasnt maliki kicked us out? or set a timetable?? ..lol mre lies to discredit america... he also gave mostly american oil companies the contracts..why is that?? ..secondly we are coming home lol ..troops are leaving not being increased ..we'll see more reductions also because they now have met 15 out of 18 benchmarks ..they never could have met those with out the surge to stop the violence

Lol. U are the only one who thinks we WON

[jameznyhc]

Lol. U are the only one who thinks we WON

you may have oppossed tthe war but we won on 4 fronts

1)defeating Sadaams baathists in 3 days

2)preventing a terrorist haven run by either Iran or Al Qaeda

3)provided the peace so the benchmarks could be met

4)the iraqi people embraced democracy by voting in larger numbers than even americans do

5)prevented a civil war


so yeah we met all our goals .. a free stable iraq is what bush was aiming for after we beat the iraqis

[jameznyhc]

so wait, it's ok mccain was wrong about the war b/c he was right about the surge? lol that's supposed to inspire confidence in judgment?

depends if you felt Sadaam was a real threat at the time .. 85% of americans and 98% of congress believed so

[ShaE]

depends if you felt Sadaam was a real threat at the time .. 85% of americans and 98% of congress believed so
mmhmmm

[JustLikeHeaven]

depends if you felt Sadaam was a real threat at the time .. 85% of americans and 98% of congress believed so

According to what...hmmm POLLS?

LOL

[jameznyhc]

According to what...hmmm POLLS?

LOL

not just that our intelligence said it was a slam dunk, The dems rushed to vote in oct of 2002 so they looked like hawks for the Nov elections, Also all the foreign intelligence, Not too mention Sadaam bragging he had WMD....just a few factors not even lookin at polls

[ShaE]

According to what...hmmm POLLS?

LOL
lmao good catch

[admin]

you may have oppossed tthe war but we won on 4 fronts

1)defeating Sadaams baathists in 3 days

2)preventing a terrorist haven run by either Iran or Al Qaeda

3)provided the peace so the benchmarks could be met

4)the iraqi people embraced democracy by voting in larger numbers than even americans do

5)prevented a civil war


so yeah we met all our goals .. a free stable iraq is what bush was aiming for after we beat the iraqis

Our goals, I'm sorry, they are not "our goals" they are Bush's goals and "Looney" republican goals, don't put world into 63% of American's that appose this war including me. Civil War would not be in question if we didn't invade that country. You really care that much about Iraqi people? How many of them got blown up? Where is their Demacracy?
We lost more people in Iraq than on 9-11, or wait they dont count cause they are soldiers. Our Economy is in a shit hole. Pakistani secret police are aiding Taliban in Pakistan and Afganistan (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25928736/), plus I'm sure they are hiding Bin Laden. If American people could bring Saddam back, get our trillian dollars back, 3200 American lives (soldiers) back, and our dignigidy, you dont think they would jump on that? I know I would. If we spend 1 trillian in Afganistan instead of Iraq Bin Laden would be caught, Taliban would be eliminated, Iran would not be talking shit, and Colin Powell's legacy would not be destroyed. Btw where are the Weapons Of Mass Destruction?
People that travel the world including Donald Trump(travels the most) said "I can't believe how much hatred towards US now because of the Iraq War". Oh wait James, you don't care what the rest of the World thinks, as long as Iraq has its Demacracy and they are happy.

If you posted that the Iraq war was a mistake, but we have to fix that mistake now I would have more respect for you, but when you post stuff like this and try to justify the war you look like the Looney one, not the Dems. Anyone that leans heavy to one side, either to the far left or far right (such as yourself) in my eyes are Looney. Do a search on my name and Bush, you will see that I was for this war because I was convinced (like most Americans) that Iraq had WMDs, but when those weapons were not found, I was embarrased, angry, and started hating Bush, made US look like such fools.

[JustLikeHeaven]

Our goals, I'm sorry, they are not "our goals" they are Bush's goals and "Looney" republican goals, don't put world into 63% of American's that appose this war including me. Civil War would not be in question if we didn't invade that country. You really care that much about Iraqi people? How many of them got blown up? Where is their Demacracy?
We lost more people in Iraq than on 9-11, or wait they dont count cause they are soldiers. Our Economy is in a shit hole. Pakistani secret police are aiding Taliban in Pakistan and Afganistan (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25928736/), plus I'm sure they are hiding Bin Laden. If American people could bring Saddam back, get our trillian dollars back, 3200 American lives (soldiers) back, and our dignigidy, you dont think they would jump on that? I know I would. If we spend 1 trillian in Afganistan instead of Iraq Bin Laden would be caught, Taliban would be eliminated, Iran would not be talking shit, and Colin Powell's legacy would not be destroyed. Btw where are the Weapons Of Mass Destruction?
People that travel the world including Donald Trump(travels the most) said "I can't believe how much hatred towards US now because of the Iraq War". Oh wait James, you don't care what the rest of the World thinks, as long as Iraq has its Demacracy and they are happy.

If you posted that the Iraq war was a mistake, but we have to fix that mistake now I would have more respect for you, but when you post stuff like this and try to justify the war you look like the Looney one, not the Dems. Anyone that leans heavy to one side, either to the far left or far right (such as yourself) in my eyes are Looney. Do a search on my name and Bush, you will see that I was for this war because I was convinced (like most Americans) that Iraq had WMDs, but when those weapons were not found, I was embarraed, angry, and started hating Bush, made US look like such fools.

:applaud

See at least u can admit it Dmitry! It really boggles my mind how Jamez still tries to justify the war, and even worse - to say that we "won." :disgusted

[Benny B]

Our goals, I'm sorry, they are not "our goals" they are Bush's goals and "Looney" republican goals, don't put world into 63% of American's that appose this war including me. Civil War would not be in question if we didn't invade that country. You really care that much about Iraqi people? How many of them got blown up? Where is their Demacracy?
We lost more people in Iraq than on 9-11, or wait they dont count cause they are soldiers. Our Economy is in a shit hole. Pakistani secret police are aiding Taliban in Pakistan and Afganistan (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25928736/), plus I'm sure they are hiding Bin Laden. If American people could bring Saddam back, get our trillian dollars back, 3200 American lives (soldiers) back, and our dignigidy, you dont think they would jump on that? I know I would. If we spend 1 trillian in Afganistan instead of Iraq Bin Laden would be caught, Taliban would be eliminated, Iran would not be talking shit, and Colin Powell's legacy would not be destroyed. Btw where are the Weapons Of Mass Destruction?
People that travel the world including Donald Trump(travels the most) said "I can't believe how much hatred towards US now because of the Iraq War". Oh wait James, you don't care what the rest of the World thinks, as long as Iraq has its Demacracy and they are happy.

If you posted that the Iraq war was a mistake, but we have to fix that mistake now I would have more respect for you, but when you post stuff like this and try to justify the war you look like the Looney one, not the Dems. Anyone that leans heavy to one side, either to the far left or far right (such as yourself) in my eyes are Looney. Do a search on my name and Bush, you will see that I was for this war because I was convinced (like most Americans) that Iraq had WMDs, but when those weapons were not found, I was embarraed, angry, and started hating Bush, made US look like such fools.


whatup dmitry... ok.. first off. do i agree with the war in iraq.. absolutely... do i think this world is a better place without sadamm not a doubt in my mind. do i think the war was executed wrong.. ABSOLUTELY!!! do i think the money is being spent carelessly NO DOUBT. this war there is things I agree with things i dont agree with..

with your statement.. of.. you supported the war to begin with... but now you dont...

ok with that said.. its easy to say that as hindsight is 20/20. since you were for the war to begin with do you suggest because it didnt go to plan that we just leave?? the old saying is if you break it you fix it.. me personally the biggest issue i had was that bush went with donal rumsfeld instead of using the powell doctrine. i really think that if they went with colin powell's plan we wouldnt have gone the route we did. the surge even liberal media companies all say "the surge worked"

as for the wmd's that everyone is all up in arms about.. first off. if they can hide a fighter jet in the sand do you think they can hide anything else??? second off read the book "sadamms secrets" gives another poiint of view on that issue. third.. wmd's was just one of many reasons we went. was sadamm not himself saying he had them???

[ShaE]

not everything that you've broken can be fixed, hence why you shouldn't have butted your nose in in the first place.

trying endlessly to correct a situation created by us, that cannot be corrected, will take more lives, more money, and more resources away from us that we need. we cannot "fix" iraq. Iraq must do that, we can help them, offer guidance and training, but we cannot remedy what we've done there. It's up to the people to take things from where they are now, and make what they'd like of their country.

sometimes, like in vietnam, you realize you're paying WAY too high a price for no apparent return, and you get the hell out. let's try and do that this time, before we lose as much as we did then.

[ShaE]

:applaud

See at least u can admit it Dmitry! It really boggles my mind how Jamez still tries to justify the war, and even worse - to say that we "won." :disgusted
dmitry has always been reasonable about what's happened w/ the war and what a dipshit bush can be lol when somebody has an open mind and can be logical that tends to happen as opposed to being persistent that we did the right thing, the war was a good idea, and reaching for any and all information to support it.:disgusted

[admin]

whatup dmitry... ok.. first off. do i agree with the war in iraq.. absolutely... do i think this world is a better place without sadamm not a doubt in my mind. do i think the war was executed wrong.. ABSOLUTELY!!! do i think the money is being spent carelessly NO DOUBT. this war there is things I agree with things i dont agree with..

with your statement.. of.. you supported the war to begin with... but now you dont...

ok with that said.. its easy to say that as hindsight is 20/20. since you were for the war to begin with do you suggest because it didnt go to plan that we just leave?? the old saying is if you break it you fix it.. me personally the biggest issue i had was that bush went with donal rumsfeld instead of using the powell doctrine. i really think that if they went with colin powell's plan we wouldnt have gone the route we did. the surge even liberal media companies all say "the surge worked"

as for the wmd's that everyone is all up in arms about.. first off. if they can hide a fighter jet in the sand do you think they can hide anything else??? second off read the book "sadamms secrets" gives another poiint of view on that issue. third.. wmd's was just one of many reasons we went. was sadamm not himself saying he had them???

I believe that country is better of with Saddam, they need to be ruled with an iron fist. It sounds fucked up but I'm just looking out for America's interest, I wont be fake and say I really care about Iraqi's, don't care if there is democracy there, I do care that my tax $ goes to rebuilding that country and for the war. If there is democracy in Iraq doesn't effect me in anyway, but US poor Economy hit me hard. We need to fix this country like the health care, Social Security, ect. before we start rebuilding any country.

As for WMD, I said this to Eleni when the war started "we better find those weapons or we'll look terrible around the world". The point was to make sure we found them when we went into Iraq. There is some believe that the weapons went to Syria after the war started. Well Bush should of made sure we found those weapons. Saddam pretty much killed himself, its like a little kid saying "I dont have anything in the closet. All he had to do is let the UN inspectors in.
I speak to people I know in Russia on the phone, they tell me shit like "Iran is not making Nukes, US said Iraq had nukes, where are they?". Point is our crediabily disappeared, and we need support from all over the world, England and Austalia is not enough. Look at Israel, they lost the war last year because of world influence. Iran is acting the way they are because they know US is no longer believable, and not liked. You ever read international message forums? They abuse US like crazy, it was never like this before the Iraq war. It will take decades to repair the damage the Iraq war has done. We didn't start the war cause we wanted to get rid of Saddam, we started it cause of WMDs.

Btw the the surge did work, I totally agree, but we wouldn't need any surge if the war was never started.

[jameznyhc]

Our goals, I'm sorry, they are not "our goals" they are Bush's goals and "Looney" republican goals, don't put world into 63% of American's that appose this war including me. Civil War would not be in question if we didn't invade that country. You really care that much about Iraqi people? How many of them got blown up? Where is their Demacracy?
We lost more people in Iraq than on 9-11, or wait they dont count cause they are soldiers. Our Economy is in a shit hole. Pakistani secret police are aiding Taliban in Pakistan and Afganistan (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25928736/), plus I'm sure they are hiding Bin Laden. If American people could bring Saddam back, get our trillian dollars back, 3200 American lives (soldiers) back, and our dignigidy, you dont think they would jump on that? I know I would. If we spend 1 trillian in Afganistan instead of Iraq Bin Laden would be caught, Taliban would be eliminated, Iran would not be talking shit, and Colin Powell's legacy would not be destroyed. Btw where are the Weapons Of Mass Destruction?
People that travel the world including Donald Trump(travels the most) said "I can't believe how much hatred towards US now because of the Iraq War". Oh wait James, you don't care what the rest of the World thinks, as long as Iraq has its Demacracy and they are happy.

If you posted that the Iraq war was a mistake, but we have to fix that mistake now I would have more respect for you, but when you post stuff like this and try to justify the war you look like the Looney one, not the Dems. Anyone that leans heavy to one side, either to the far left or far right (such as yourself) in my eyes are Looney. Do a search on my name and Bush, you will see that I was for this war because I was convinced (like most Americans) that Iraq had WMDs, but when those weapons were not found, I was embarraed, angry, and started hating Bush, made US look like such fools.


Why only focus on WMD?? lol ..this War was about resolution 1442 being broken for 12 long years ...Now clinton tried containment by bombing Iraq for 3 days ..it didnt work ..how was Bush going to get Sadaam to uphold his agreement resolution 1442?...the only reason other countries attacked with us and went in with us was resiolution 1442.. they did not care about WMD's..,.so your premising the war on only 1 reason ..when we had 6 or 7 legitimate reasons ..

Secondly wmds were found they just took out 500lbs of yellowcake uranium what was that for?? hmm you think developing nukes..

Why would you blame bush for bad inteligence?? unless you believe clinton falsified it as well.. why did clinton bomb in 98 .. why did clinton avoid the UN??

Fourthly were not running the show in afghanistan ..NATO is how do we takle control from them ?? and overtake the afghanni situation

You also said you supported the war at the time.. my point is so did most everyone because the intelliegence was so convincing .. can you prove sadaam had no wmds?? no you cant cause we found wmds..

[ShaE]

no you cant cause we found wmds..
then bush & co did a piss poor job of advertising their resounding success to the american public.:rolleyes:

just in from jamez, wmd stockpiles found as advertised, bull. nothing worth starting a war over.

[jameznyhc]

[QUOTE]
I believe that country is better of with Saddam, they need to be ruled with an iron fist. It sounds fucked up but I'm just looking out for America's interest, I wont be fake and say I really care about Iraqi's, don't care if there is democracy there,


why they seem to be doing alot better without him ..they embraced democracy we did not force it .. if they needed to be ruled with an iron fist theyd have a dictat



I do care that my tax $ goes to rebuilding that country and for the war. If there is democracy in Iraq doesn't effect me in anyway, but US poor Economy hit me hard. We need to fix this country like the health care, Social Security, ect. before we start rebuilding any country.

As for WMD, I said this to Eleni when the war started "we better find those weapons or we'll look terrible around the world". The point was to make sure we found them when we went into Iraq. There is some believe that the weapons went to Syria after the war started. Well Bush should of made sure we found those weapons. Saddam pretty much killed himself, its like a little kid saying "I dont have anything in the closet. All he had to do is let the UN inspectors in.
I speak to people I know in Russia on the phone, they tell me shit like "Iran is not making Nukes, US said Iraq had nukes, where are they?". Point is our crediabily disappeared, and we need support from all over the world, England and Austalia is not enough. Look at Israel, they lost the war last year because of world influence. Iran is acting the way they are because they know US is no longer believable, and not liked. You ever read international message forums? They abuse US like crazy, it was never like this before the Iraq war. It will take decades to repair the damage the Iraq war has done. We didn't start the war cause we wanted to get rid of Saddam, we started it cause of WMDs.

Btw the the surge did work, I totally agree, but we wouldn't need any surge if the war was never started.


There would never be a war if sadaam repsected resoltuion 1442 lol .. its very simple .. you cant let a madman do as he pleases ..why have the resoltuion at all?

Why do you only point to our intelliegence?? when everyone else had the same intelligence?? why do we loose credibility when 30 other nations joined us??

If Russia and China didnt fuck up oil for food, and arm sadaam theyre never would have been a war .. what about oil for food??

[jameznyhc]

then bush & co did a piss poor job of advertising their resounding success to the american public.:rolleyes:

just in from jamez, wmd stockpiles found as advertised, bull. nothing worth starting a war over.

again 500 lbs of yellowcake that he was not suppose to have ... why did he have it?? how did he get it??..

We didnt start this war ..Sadaam did by breaking resolution 1442 ..i sound like a broken record .. we let him break it for 12 years..why is that?

[jameznyhc]

do we forget sadaams failed assanation of senior bush?? his invasion of other countries.. his using wmd in the past ..lol

The taliban never did any of those things .. they didnt even attack us .. Al Qaeda did .. taliban refused o hand over osama .. but in no way planned or executed 9/11

[John Kennedy]

do we forget sadaams failed assanation of senior bush?? his invasion of other countries.. his using wmd in the past ..lol

The taliban never did any of those things .. they didnt even attack us .. Al Qaeda did .. taliban refused o hand over osama .. but in no way planned or executed 9/11

The Taliban directly harbored Al Qaeda.. direct ties. They are basically the military strength of the Taliban.. stop trying to twist things.

[jameznyhc]

The Taliban directly harbored Al Qaeda.. direct ties. They are basically the military strength of the Taliban.. stop trying to twist things.

thats true they didnt hand over Osama ..but again they had nothing to do with 9/11, uss cole, or the first trade center bombing thats why Bush gave themm a choice right?? ..now of course i believed in the afghan war ..but they were much less of a threat than sadaam hussein was ..

[CraftyVet16]

The Taliban directly harbored Al Qaeda.. direct ties. They are basically the military strength of the Taliban.. stop trying to twist things.

this guy really lives on his own planet... how any human can believe the things he believes makes me feel so sorry for him...... i can't wait til november.... HOW SWEET IT WILL BE....

[John Kennedy]

thats true they didnt hand over Osama ..but again they had nothing to do with 9/11, uss cole, or the first trade center bombing thats why Bush gave themm a choice right?? ..now of course i believed in the afghan war ..but they were much less of a threat than sadaam hussein was ..

Are you kidding? Osama grew Al Qaeda into what it is now because of the Taliban in Afghanistan. They are the reason 9/11 happened.. I know I don't have to spell this out for you you're just playing dumb because it helps your argument in this thread.. I feel stupid for even addressing this. You can't really mean that Saddam was a bigger threat than Taliban/Al Qaeda.

[Benny B]

I believe that country is better of with Saddam, they need to be ruled with an iron fist. It sounds fucked up but I'm just looking out for America's interest, I wont be fake and say I really care about Iraqi's, don't care if there is democracy there, I do care that my tax $ goes to rebuilding that country and for the war. If there is democracy in Iraq doesn't effect me in anyway, but US poor Economy hit me hard. We need to fix this country like the health care, Social Security, ect. before we start rebuilding any country.

As for WMD, I said this to Eleni when the war started "we better find those weapons or we'll look terrible around the world". The point was to make sure we found them when we went into Iraq. There is some believe that the weapons went to Syria after the war started. Well Bush should of made sure we found those weapons. Saddam pretty much killed himself, its like a little kid saying "I dont have anything in the closet. All he had to do is let the UN inspectors in.
I speak to people I know in Russia on the phone, they tell me shit like "Iran is not making Nukes, US said Iraq had nukes, where are they?". Point is our crediabily disappeared, and we need support from all over the world, England and Austalia is not enough. Look at Israel, they lost the war last year because of world influence. Iran is acting the way they are because they know US is no longer believable, and not liked. You ever read international message forums? They abuse US like crazy, it was never like this before the Iraq war. It will take decades to repair the damage the Iraq war has done. We didn't start the war cause we wanted to get rid of Saddam, we started it cause of WMDs.

Btw the the surge did work, I totally agree, but we wouldn't need any surge if the war was never started.

First off there is alot i agree with you alot i dont.. is iraq better off with or without saddam? welll first you are right they need an iron fist. iraq didnt have this violence before because the people lived in fear of saddam. once saddam was no longer in control it became a free for all. BUT that doesnt mean thats how it should be. Its the old saying if you saw someone on the side of the road being raped do you sit there and say.. fuck it its her problem??? or do you do what you can to help. There is many other reasons that we went to this war other than just wmd's

Do you think if it wasnt for the oil for food scandal and we had the support of Russia who was selling weapon to Iraq.. germany who was one of the original that supplied wmds to fight iran?? do you think if we had france supporting this that things might have been alot easier???

As for the reputation of the U.S. i cant argue yes its been tarnished. and yes it will take many years to repair. as for Iran, listen again im not gonna sit here and say i know or dont know. because like you im just a person sitting at home as a sideline quaterback when it comes to the information.. we can say they have them all we want.. but unlike the past things need to be proven. i honestly dont think the u.s. will be the ones shooting first. i think israel will be handling that one. my guess as early as sept.

anyways.. like ive said.. its easy to sit here and question everything that has been said and done not that its been done with because hindsight is 20/20. i feel the decisions made by our president / our congress / and everyone involved was the decisions they made at the time to their best ability with the information that was given to them.

[jameznyhc]

First off there is alot i agree with you alot i dont.. is iraq better off with or without saddam? welll first you are right they need an iron fist. iraq didnt have this violence before because the people lived in fear of saddam. once saddam was no longer in control it became a free for all. BUT that doesnt mean thats how it should be. Its the old saying if you saw someone on the side of the road being raped do you sit there and say.. fuck it its her problem??? or do you do what you can to help. There is many other reasons that we went to this war other than just wmd's

Do you think if it wasnt for the oil for food scandal and we had the support of Russia who was selling weapon to Iraq.. germany who was one of the original that supplied wmds to fight iran?? do you think if we had france supporting this that things might have been alot easier???

As for the reputation of the U.S. i cant argue yes its been tarnished. and yes it will take many years to repair. as for Iran, listen again im not gonna sit here and say i know or dont know. because like you im just a person sitting at home as a sideline quaterback when it comes to the information.. we can say they have them all we want.. but unlike the past things need to be proven. i honestly dont think the u.s. will be the ones shooting first. i think israel will be handling that one. my guess as early as sept.

anyways.. like ive said.. its easy to sit here and question everything that has been said and done not that its been done with because hindsight is 20/20. i feel the decisions made by our president / our congress / and everyone involved was the decisions they made at the time to their best ability with the information that was given to them.

thats right Benny you got it..If not for russia, germany, france and china conspiring against us, arming sadaam..and being corrupted in oil vouxchers there would be no war

Thats why NK folded and gave up their nukes ..Sanctions worked ..very simple..

What i find outrageous is people embarassed of america ..when it was Russia and /china arming him and protecting him

[jameznyhc]

Are you kidding? Osama grew Al Qaeda into what it is now because of the Taliban in Afghanistan. They are the reason 9/11 happened.. I know I don't have to spell this out for you you're just playing dumb because it helps your argument in this thread.. I feel stupid for even addressing this. You can't really mean that Saddam was a bigger threat than Taliban/Al Qaeda.



Im not playing dumb at all ..Al qaeda operated in afghanistan ..just as they are operating today in pakistan .. al qaeda is worldwide .. not the afghan govt .. all the afghans did was harbor al qaeda who was made up of multi nationalists ...it wasnt afghannis who executed 9/11 ...it was Saudi nationals .. most hijackers came from saudi .. if osama did use afghan as a training ground he would have used other islamist countries .. very siimple .. Why was the taliban more of a threat than sadaam?? they werent developing nukes, they didnt try to kill a US president, they didnt use WMDs, they never invaded their neighbors.. see this is why Bush gave the taliban an out ..if they handed over osama we wouldnt have gone in their

Now we know pakistan and pakistani secret police are helping al qaeda .. so why not go to war with them?? they have nukes right?

[JustLikeHeaven]

Im not playing dumb at all ..Al qaeda operated in afghanistan ..just as they are operating today in pakistan .. al qaeda is worldwide .. not the afghan govt .. all the afghans did was harbor al qaeda who was made up of multi nationalists ...it wasnt afghannis who executed 9/11 ...it was Saudi nationals .. most hijackers came from saudi .. if osama did use afghan as a training ground he would have used other islamist countries .. very siimple .. Why was the taliban more of a threat than sadaam?? they werent developing nukes, they didnt try to kill a US president, they didnt use WMDs, they never invaded their neighbors.. see this is why Bush gave the taliban an out ..if they handed over osama we wouldnt have gone in their

Now we know pakistan and pakistani secret police are helping al qaeda .. so why not go to war with them?? they have nukes right?

Oh NOW u wanna go to war with Pakistan and say that they are helping al-Qaeda?? When Obama made the comment about Pakistan u made such a big fuss...hmm kinda funny how your stance changes just to support ur current argument...

[jameznyhc]

Oh NOW u wanna go to war with Pakistan and say that they are helping al-Qaeda?? When Obama made the comment about Pakistan u made such a big fuss...hmm kinda funny how your stance changes just to support ur current argument...

i posed the question ..didnt say i support it.. i wish afghanistan handed over osama we wouldnt have went in there as well.. i wish sadaam upheld his agreement and didnt bribe russians either..With pakistan they are currently helping us but there also corruption within the pakistani police .. to help qaeda .

Why do you think we didnt go to war with NK or Libya???... very simple they cooperated

As for Iran we werent even involved we left it up to the euros ..when the euros got nowhere for 4 years they begged us to come in ... once again the world loves to hate us ..but when they need us its a different story

As for Iraq being better off with Saddaam .. sure there was genocide so the shia and kurds were exterminated ...no different than communist russia there was genocide of jews .. and russia was alot stronger .. they were a superpower ..does that mean putin shouls seal the borders start persecuting and killing jews and rule with an iron fist..so they can prosper again?? lol thats ridiculous

[jameznyhc]

Ok JK ..what about Zarqawi setting up al qaeda training camp in Iraq in 2002 after he was driven from afghanistan ..this was well before we invaded iraq correct??


In the summer of 2002, Zarqawi was reported[who?] to have settled in northern Iraq, where he joined the Islamist Ansar al-Islam group that fought against the Kurdish-nationalist forces in the region. He reportedly[who?] became a leader in the group, although his leadership role has not been established. According to Perspectives on World History and Current Events (PWHCE), a not-for-profit project based in Melbourne, Australia, "Zarqawi was well positioned to lead the Islamic wing of the insurgency when the March 2003 invasion took place. Whether he remained in Ansar al-Islam camps until April 2003 or laid the preparations for the war during extensive visits to Baghdad and the Sunni Triangle is uncertain, but clearly he emerged as an important figure in the insurgency soon after the Coalition invasion."

[John Kennedy]

Ok JK ..what about Zarqawi setting up al qaeda training camp in Iraq in 2002 after he was driven from afghanistan ..this was well before we invaded iraq correct??


In the summer of 2002, Zarqawi was reported[who?] to have settled in northern Iraq, where he joined the Islamist Ansar al-Islam group that fought against the Kurdish-nationalist forces in the region. He reportedly[who?] became a leader in the group, although his leadership role has not been established. According to Perspectives on World History and Current Events (PWHCE), a not-for-profit project based in Melbourne, Australia, "Zarqawi was well positioned to lead the Islamic wing of the insurgency when the March 2003 invasion took place. Whether he remained in Ansar al-Islam camps until April 2003 or laid the preparations for the war during extensive visits to Baghdad and the Sunni Triangle is uncertain, but clearly he emerged as an important figure in the insurgency soon after the Coalition invasion."

It was disproven by the CIA in 2004 that Saddam harbored him.. Zarqawi was a nomad fighter.. he was in Afghanistan in the 80's and 90's then tries to set up in Iraq.. he went wherever the fight was.. he wasn't the reason we went to Iraq. There was plenty of talk of us invading in the summer of 2002, so he went there. We brought him there. Him and Saddam weren't compatible.

Anyway.. some good things happened in Iraq that help us against Al Qaeda.. I hope we come out of there soon with our heads up. But the Bush camp and anyone supporting them needs to be thrown on their asses in these elections for how they ran this war and how they ran the last 8 years overall.. there's no question about it. You can nitpick all you want about the dems not fighting enough, but the bottom lines is the country has been dragged through the mud for 8 years.

[metfan85]

Enough talking oif benchmarks. No parent who raised her kid in small town America sent their kid to fight and die for benchmarks in some stupid worthless country.

Oh but it was for democracy. Yeah that's something I wanna fight and die for.. After all like neocon hero Winston Churchill said in 1901 - "Democracy is more vindictive than Cabinets. The wars of people are more terrible than those of Kings."

[jameznyhc]

Enough talking oif benchmarks. No parent who raised her kid in small town America sent their kid to fight and die for benchmarks in some stupid worthless country.

Oh but it was for democracy. Yeah that's something I wanna fight and die for.. After all like neocon hero Winston Churchill said in 1901 - "Democracy is more vindictive than Cabinets. The wars of people are more terrible than those of Kings."


Really what about John McCains sons??? ..They served in iraq ..he believed the War was just..

Benchmarks prove we are not imperilalists or occupiers.. were letting the iraqis govern themselves ..Maliki stepped up bigtime i give him lots of credit

Also most military guys voted for bush in nov 04 almost 2 years after the invasion ..why didnt they embrace kerry if they didnt believe in their mission ..ii bet most of them vote for McCain ..what do you think??

[jameznyhc]

Enough talking oif benchmarks. No parent who raised her kid in small town America sent their kid to fight and die for benchmarks in some stupid worthless country.

Oh but it was for democracy. Yeah that's something I wanna fight and die for.. After all like neocon hero Winston Churchill said in 1901 - "Democracy is more vindictive than Cabinets. The wars of people are more terrible than those of Kings."

how about when the country they went to war with tried to kill our very own president ..after signing 1442 ..this was after Bush sr gave him a second chance ..this is why senior was a fuckin asshole to trust Sadaam .. he betrayed us once before by executing and committing genocide against the kurds in 88 .. then again after we left in 91 ..shia and especially our kurdish allies were left to be slaugtered thanks to Senior .. so does this sound like a man who was not a threat to america ..lol .. seriously whats wrong with you people??\...what about his plans to release sarin gas thru out nyc subways??



The Toyota Land Cruiser had been meticulously packed and wired with enough plastic explosives to make the Oklahoma City truck bomb look like a firecracker by comparison. In early 1993, this was Saddam Hussein's ultimate secret weapon.

If detonated, it would kill people 400 yards away. It was a conventional weapon perhaps, but a weapon of mass destruction nonetheless.

On April 10, 1993, agents of the Iraqi Intelligence Service handed the keys of this death mobile to a team of specially recruited operatives. On April 13, under cover of darkness, some of these operatives started up the vehicle and began a secret trek across the southern Iraqi desert toward the Kuwaiti frontier.

Their intended target: George Herbert Walker Bush, just-retired President of the United States.

[jameznyhc]

The day before Saddam's Land Cruiser started creeping toward Kuwait-probably from somewhere near the southern Iraqi city of Basra-a chartered Kuwaiti Airlines 747 had taken off from Ellington Field in Houston, Tex. Its cargo: former President Bush, former First Lady Barbara Bush, presidential son Neil Bush, his wife Sharon, and future First Lady Laura Bush. The plane was scheduled to stop over in Washington, D.C., to pick up former White House Chief of Staff John Sununu and former Secretary of State James Baker.

Sweet Nothings

But now we need to flash back a few months. For the real start to this story is not in April 1993, but in January of that year, during the transition between the Bush and Clinton administrations.

On Jan. 13, 1993, President-elect Clinton signaled he was ready to change U.S. policy toward Iraq. President Bush had insisted he would never lift UN sanctions on Baghdad until Saddam was removed from power. But in an interview with the New York Times, Clinton said he would not insist on Saddam's removal as a condition for normalizing relations with Iraq. "I am not obsessed with the man," said Clinton. "I always tell everybody I am a Baptist. I believe in deathbed conversions. If he wants a different relationship with the United States and the United Nations, all he has to do is change his behavior."

This led to a classic series of Clintonian flips and flops on Iraq policy.

At a press conference on the day the Times published his interview, Clinton claimed the paper had never asked him about normalizing relations with Saddam and that he was "astonished" it had come to the conclusion that he would consider doing so based on his remarks. "There is no difference between my policy and the policy of the present administration," Clinton said.

Immediately after the press conference, in the face of transcripts showing the Times had specifically asked him about normalizing relations with Iraq, Clinton reversed himself through spokesman George Stephanopoulos. "He inadvertently forgot that he had been asked that specific question about normalization and he regrets denying that it was asked," said Stephanopoulos.

Yet, that same day in Senate testimony, Secretary of State-designate Warren Christopher seemed to repeat what Clinton had first told the Tmes. "I thought that the most that could be said was that Gov. Clinton perhaps wanted to keep the feud from being personalized," said Christopher.

Two months later, Clinton unambiguously reversed Bush's policy. In a March 27, 1993, statement Christopher said the administration intended to "depersonalize" the conflict with Iraq. The Washington Post reported Christopher's remarks in a story headlined: "U.S. Relents on Removal of Saddam." "The new position," the Post reported, "is expected to bring the United States and Britain in line with France and Russia, which have not insisted on Saddam's removal."

Saddam got the message loud and clear. But he had no intention of reciprocating by "depersonalizing" his relationship with the U.S. The sweet nothings Warren Christopher whispered in his ear would be met with an explosive response.

Which brings us back to April 1993.

On the morning of April 12, the 747 carrying the Bush family to what was anticipated to be a triumphal tour of liberated Kuwait took off from Ellington Field. Half an hour later it turned back. An ominous tear had opened in the left wing. Bush, a Navy pilot whose plane had been shot down in World War II, took the setback with grace and a little bravado. "Who hasn't been on a plane without some difficulty?" he said. The Kuwaitis, he added, "handled it beautifully."

[B]The next day, the Bush party took off in another Kuwaiti Airlines 747. This one arrived in Kuwait City, a day late, on April 14.

It may never be known what impact that one-day delay had, if any, on Saddam's assassination plan.

As Saddam's explosive-packed Toyota Land Cruiser penetrated Kuwaiti territory on the night of April 13, Kuwaiti authorities intercepted it. They quickly rounded up 16 conspirators. But the Kuwaitis did not immediately inform President Bush, or the U.S. government. In fact, they kept the assassination attempt secret for the duration of Bush's trip. When the Bush motorcade traveled from the Kuwait airport to the royal palace on April 14, Carlyle Murphy of the Washington Post-apparently unaware of the full significance of her observation-recorded that "security-conscious police had closed the roads to traffic."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200209/ai_n9094479

[jameznyhc]

so ill end the thread on this note Bushs dad and family were almost murdered ...

Clitnon aw intelligence to lead him to bomb iraq in the 90s..

Tony blair told bush that they had proof Sadaam was purchasing yellowcake..

Bush knew russia and china would never let sanctions work ..

Sadaam invaded other countries and used WMD in the past ..

Anyone who thinks he was not a threat after being blown up in 91, then again in 98 ..is a retard im sorry

[Defekted]

so ill end the thread on this note Bushs dad and family were almost murdered ...

Clitnon aw intelligence to lead him to bomb iraq in the 90s..

Tony blair told bush that they had proof Sadaam was purchasing yellowcake..

Bush knew russia and china would never let sanctions work ..

Sadaam invaded other countries and used WMD in the past ..

Anyone who thinks he was not a threat after being blown up in 91, then again in 98 ..is a retard im sorry

lol

[ShaE]

jamez, so then I'm to assume we're going to invade any country that's lead by a lunatic that poses a threat to us?

since being a "threat" in any capacity is grounds for war, our boys better gear up for decades more of this shit b/c we have a lot of places to visit :rolleyes:

bush sr. was almost murdered? a FEW THOUSAND american citizens were brutally murdered by bin laden, dubya can't get his head out of his ass enough to find him in 7 years, where's their justice?
justice for his dad, but not for his people? nice.

[jameznyhc]

jamez, so then I'm to assume we're going to invade any country that's lead by a lunatic that poses a threat to us?
since being a "threat" in any capacity is grounds for war, our boys better gear up for decades more of this shit b/c we have a lot of places to visit :rolleyes:

bush sr. was almost murdered? a FEW THOUSAND american citizens were brutally murdered by bin laden, dubya can't get his head out of his ass enough to find him in 7 years, where's their justice?
justice for his dad, but not for his people? nice.

Well your the one who said you would support Obama in a pre-emptive strike to stop irans nukes .. so you answered your own question ..lol

[metfan85]

jamez, so then I'm to assume we're going to invade any country that's lead by a lunatic that poses a threat to us?

since being a "threat" in any capacity is grounds for war, our boys better gear up for decades more of this shit b/c we have a lot of places to visit :rolleyes:

bush sr. was almost murdered? a FEW THOUSAND american citizens were brutally murdered by bin laden, dubya can't get his head out of his ass enough to find him in 7 years, where's their justice?
justice for his dad, but not for his people? nice.

Get with the program Shan, perpetual war for perpetual peace.
And Jamez dude you can't say neocons don't believe this is true.. Its in all of their books, frums krauthammers kristols etc. Thank Goodness that their political time is passing and they're not going to get us in a ground war with iran and syria and lebanon and egypt and any other enemy of Israel

[jameznyhc]

Get with the program Shan, perpetual war for perpetual peace.
And Jamez dude you can't say neocons don't believe this is true.. Its in all of their books, frums krauthammers kristols etc. Thank Goodness that their political time is passing and they're not going to get us in a ground war with iran and syria and lebanon and egypt and any other enemy of Israel

Krauthammer and kristol are journalists ...Savage is a broadcaster they dont effect policy ...

Lebanon and egypt pose no threat to us... When israel fought lebanon it was neocon bush who tied their hands lol.. he should have stayed out

syria is contained because israel took out their nukes thankgod...

that leaves iran and i know for a fact bush isnt going to attack like the far right said he would to discredit him

[ShaE]

Get with the program Shan, perpetual war for perpetual peace.
And Jamez dude you can't say neocons don't believe this is true.. Its in all of their books, frums krauthammers kristols etc. Thank Goodness that their political time is passing and they're not going to get us in a ground war with iran and syria and lebanon and egypt and any other enemy of Israel
My problem is not that I'm against war, I'm against war as the option to any and every threat we face b/c the people in charge are too stupid to handle it otherwise. Knowing when to use force and when not to, is probably one of the most coveted and necessary abilities a leader could have. Being too eager, or not eager enough can be catastrophic.

We can't say we have to address every leader or situation who is threatening with brute force. We can't fight everyone, forever. We have to pick/choose battles, and ascertain threats more effectively.
Classic fuckup, look at afghanistan now, look what happens when you shy away from the real fight and tie yourself up in bullshit. A huge big problem that should've been taken care of the first time, has gained strength, while we bogged ourselves down in a useless fight elsewhere.

now what? bad choices have serious consequences.

[ShaE]

Krauthammer and kristol are journalists ...Savage is a broadcaster they dont effect policy ...




you seem to think the "liberal media" affects policy, but when it's the other side, it doesn't matter?

[jameznyhc]

you seem to think the "liberal media" affects policy, but when it's the other side, it doesn't matter?

they are far from katie couric and the ny times ...most ppl have no clue who krauthammer is

As for savage he does effect policy because he gets alot of credit for dubai deal being killed ... and for helping the haditha marines the ones you posted as murderers :rolleyes:

[ShaE]

Well your the one who said you would support Obama in a pre-emptive strike to stop irans nukes .. so you answered your own question ..lol
I said if the threat was imminent, I wouldn't rule out force to protect Israel. That's very conditional jamez, it doesnt' mean go in there and bomb iran. It means if a situation ever reached the point where we firmly believed iran was goign to strike israel, to the absolute best of our knowledge, and negotiation was no longer an option, I would support aiding israel militarily. I value that. but it would take an awful lot to convince me our only option was force, and it wouldn't mean war, or invasion.

Essentially it just means I feel israel is deserving of our protection, but ascertaining the threat level? and when/if force is appropriate, would be extremely difficult.

that doesn't answer my question, b/c my question was are you then going to take military action against EVERY threat posed? start a war w/ every nation or leader that is threatening?

my comment was about iran specifically and israel, i didnt say i support use of force in all cases where a threat exists. how have i answered my own question? clearly i dont think force is the solution to every threat, nor do i think every threat is equal and deserving of our attention. iran is a specific case, my question was general. we can't go barging in guns blazing every time somebody throws up a red flag.

[ShaE]

they are far from katie couric and the ny times ...most ppl have no clue who krauthammer is

As for savage he does effect policy because he gets alot of credit for dubai deal being killed ... and for helping the haditha marines the ones you posted as murderers :rolleyes:
I posted as murderers? I'm not the court jamez, I can't pronounce them anything, you wouldn't even HEAR of the possibility of them having comitted a crime. completely out of the realm of possibility to you that they could've fired upon and killed people out of revenge for their lost men. i dont' share that sentiment, and I don't have to apologize for knowing soldiers are human, they make mistakes, they commit crimes, and they aren't infallible.

it's not so easy for me to assume innocence when you have soldiers coming home now so fucked up they're murdering their own wives and families for christ sake. I don't rule anythign out anymore w/ how fucked up iraq is making our troops. they have them on PSYCH MEDS on active duty, and you think it's nuts to enertain the idea some of them might go a little nuts and do something criminal?

They were innocent, I'm glad they were cleared, but I wouldn't hesitate to want to see any others that come into question brought to justice. You do not get a free pass b/c you wear a uniform, quite the contrary, you're supposed to be an example, so when you cross the line it's 100x worse.

[metfan85]

they are far from katie couric and the ny times ...most ppl have no clue who krauthammer is

As for savage he does effect policy because he gets alot of credit for dubai deal being killed ... and for helping the haditha marines the ones you posted as murderers :rolleyes:

Ok the first few guys ARE the war party and have intimiate relation with the president.

Savage def is not in the same class, he said from day 1 this was is goin to create a supersized Iran and was not in our interest. I've been listenin to him since 2002 the first week he was on in new york in 770...

Btw the liberal media can affect people opinions but these guys r more dangerous.. They worl covertly, they almost got clinton to invade in 98.. Btw frum wolfowitz. Etc all r neocons that got bush to transform his ideas from modest foreign policy to hubris and israel first

[jameznyhc]

Ok the first few guys ARE the war party and have intimiate relation with the president.

Savage def is not in the same class, he said from day 1 this was is goin to create a supersized Iran and was not in our interest. I've been listenin to him since 2002 the first week he was on in new york in 770...

Btw the liberal media can affect people opinions but these guys r more dangerous.. They worl covertly, they almost got clinton to invade in 98.. Btw frum wolfowitz. Etc all r neocons that got bush to transform his ideas from modest foreign policy to hubris and israel first

yeah they tied up bush and hypnotized him lol ... you may think islamic fundamentalism poses no threat ..why?? i have no clue considering how many of our citizens been murdered .. you gotta be smart enuff to realize history .. what happens when israel negoitiates and gives up land?? when britain is run by looney left politicians who wanna debate sharia law ??..when child killers are celebrated ..this has nothing to do with land lmao ..this is jihad kid realize its real this is what i cant understand ..Now savage is gung ho to bomb iran i know you read bush is making the world safe for theocracy ..the only thing savage opposed was the EXECUTION of rumsfelds pc war that was leading to a supersized iran before petraus saved the day ... he couldnt stand the fact we were sending our boys door to door when we invest millions in technology weapons ..he advocated ..yes advocated massive air strikes and sophisticated weaponry ..he wanted to decimate iraq lol so i dont know who you were listening cause i was listening to him well before wor ..on WABC as well ...

Why you want to let a madman dictate world policy and threaten peaceful nation while building nuclear bombs to destroy them is mindboggling .. or why its our fault putin is a piece of shit who sold us out during food for oil .. you may have thought sadaam was a man of peace .. why i have no clue lol .. only thing i canbt figure out about ya lol ..besides that savage spends everyday bashing islamic fundamenatism as the biggest threat since nazi germany

I never heard anyone advocate bombing egypt or lebanon lol!!...

[metfan85]

Really what about John McCains sons??? ..They served in iraq ..he believed the War was just..

Benchmarks prove we are not imperilalists or occupiers.. were letting the iraqis govern themselves ..Maliki stepped up bigtime i give him lots of credit

Also most military guys voted for bush in nov 04 almost 2 years after the invasion ..why didnt they embrace kerry if they didnt believe in their mission ..ii bet most of them vote for McCain ..what do you think??

Im not talking about 1 man out of 535. I mean the bellicose neocons and you knwo who they are James.

Lawrence Kaplan of the New Republic Washington Post columnist Robert Kagan David Brooks of the Weekly Standard Wall Street Journal editor Max Boot Wolfowitz Frum Perle

heres a peice from neocon extradoinarre Norman Podherotz (his name makes me want to throw up)
"We may willy-nilly find ourselves forced … to topple five or six or seven more tyrannies in the Islamic world (including that other sponsor of terrorism, Yasir Arafat’s Palestinian Authority). I can even [imagine] the turmoil of this war leading to some new species of an imperial mission for America, whose purpose would be to oversee the emergence of successor governments in the region more amenable to reform and modernization than the despotisms now in place. … I can also envisage the establishment of some kind of American protectorate over the oil fields of Saudi Arabia, as we more and more come to wonder why 7,000 princes should go on being permitted to exert so much leverage over us and everyone else."

Or how about the cabal of 40 neo-cons who wrote President Bush that if he does not act decisively against ISLAM, not the perpetrators of 9/11 but ISLAM, they would play the Munich card.. and you know what they all have in common? Not a single one of them served or is serving. bunch of pussies is what they are

a neocon is more likely to be a magazine editor than a bricklayer
a neocon is more familiar with the inside of a think tank than an Abrams tank

[metfan85]

I never heard anyone advocate bombing egypt or lebanon lol!!...

Are the neoconservatives concerned about a war on Iraq bringing down friendly Arab governments? Not at all. They would welcome it.

“Mubarak is no great shakes,” says Richard Perle of the President of Egypt. “Surely we can do better than Mubarak.” Asked about the possibility that a war on Iraq—which he predicted would be a “cakewalk”—might upend governments in Egypt and Saudi Arabia, former UN ambassador Ken Adelman told Joshua Micah Marshall of Washington Monthly, “All the better if you ask me.”

On July 10, 2002, Perle invited a former aide to Lyndon LaRouche named Laurent Murawiec to address the Defense Policy Board. In a briefing that startled Henry Kissinger, Murawiec named Saudi Arabia as “the kernel of evil, the prime mover, the most dangerous opponent” of the United States.

Washington should give Riyadh an ultimatum, he said. Either you Saudis “prosecute or isolate those involved in the terror chain, including the Saudi intelligence services,” and end all propaganda against Israel, or we invade your country, seize your oil fields, and occupy Mecca.

In closing his PowerPoint presentation, Murawiec offered a “Grand Strategy for the Middle East.” “Iraq is the tactical pivot, Saudi Arabia the strategic pivot, Egypt the prize.” Leaked reports of Murawiec’s briefing did not indicate if anyone raised the question of how the Islamic world might respond to U.S. troops tramping around the grounds of the Great Mosque.

What these neoconservatives seek is to conscript American blood to make the world safe for Israel. They want the peace of the sword imposed on Islam and American soldiers to die if necessary to impose it.

Washington Times editor at large Arnaud de Borchgrave calls this the “Bush-Sharon Doctrine.” “Washington’s ‘Likudniks,’” he writes, “have been in charge of U.S. policy in the Middle East since Bush was sworn into office.”

The neocons seek American empire, and Sharonites seek hegemony over the Middle East. The two agendas coincide precisely. And though neocons insist that it was Sept. 11 that made the case for war on Iraq and militant Islam, the origins of their war plans go back far before.

http://amconmag.com/2003/03_24_03/cover.html

[metfan85]

I said if the threat was imminent, I wouldn't rule out force to protect Israel. That's very conditional jamez, it doesnt' mean go in there and bomb iran. It means if a situation ever reached the point where we firmly believed iran was goign to strike israel, to the absolute best of our knowledge, and negotiation was no longer an option, I would support aiding israel militarily. I value that. but it would take an awful lot to convince me our only option was force, and it wouldn't mean war, or invasion.

.

I would rule out force to protect Israel, if we get attacked what will Israel do to protect me?

There is no strategic advantage in using force to defend Israel, and before any of the Israelophiles start with this isolationism lies. Its not isolationism, its American foreign policy tradition and it worked pretty damn well until we started handing out blank checks for war.

America has its own traditions, just like Israel has hers. Im not about to throw out what George Washington said b/c the Mossad asked for help

and theres nothing anti-semitic there. If Israel has a problem then yeah I hope they do something about. but grow a pair of balls already damnit, stop asking us to do everything

[jameznyhc]

I would rule out force to protect Israel, if we get attacked what will Israel do to protect me?

There is no strategic advantage in using force to defend Israel, and before any of the Israelophiles start with this isolationism lies. Its not isolationism, its American foreign policy tradition and it worked pretty damn well until we started handing out blank checks for war.

America has its own traditions, just like Israel has hers. Im not about to throw out what George Washington said b/c the Mossad asked for help

and theres nothing anti-semitic there. If Israel has a problem then yeah I hope they do something about. but grow a pair of balls already damnit, stop asking us to do everything


Bro i could pull quotes from savage that are just as brutal ..your point???

[jameznyhc]

let me ask when were these quotes taken?? was it right after we were attacked on our homeland ?? ..also i couldn not find any articles by krauthammer or kristol advocating war with egpyt ...also podohoretz is only RESPONDING to a jihad committed to destroying america, britain and israel ..I never saw Israel attacking anyone ..they only DEFEND themselves ..you wanna live in a world that turns a blinds eye and lets islamic fanatics destroy small country like israel?..your willing to let dictactors destroy other free countries.. why?

[ShaE]

your willing to let dictactors destroy other free countries.. why?
so wait, you're saying it's up to us to decide when/if a dictator is "destroying" a free country, and if we feel they are, we have to intervene?

[ShaE]

yeah they tied up bush and hypnotized him lol ... ...
maybe it's like when bush gazed into vladimir putin's eyes and saw his soul!

[jameznyhc]

maybe it's like when bush gazed into vladimir putin's eyes and saw his soul!

Flatter him in the press makes bush look like he got class .. but since putin fucked us with iraq and now with iran ..Bush is puttin the shield right in putins backyard .

[jameznyhc]

so wait, you're saying it's up to us to decide when/if a dictator is "destroying" a free country, and if we feel they are, we have to intervene?

No if that was the case id suggest we go into darfur.. . but id love to see the un step up or other countries step up .. it could be stopped tomorow if the world demanded it..

But israel is a free democratic peaceful country .. to let islamic fundamentalists steal their land and mass murder them while we sit by ..that totally immoral .. because then you have dictactor setting world policy .. there would be no rules or order ...

[Defekted]

I read Jamez post claiming that Iraq was a nuclear threat and Saddam had his finger on the button and the only thing that comes to mind is a kid who plays someone else 1 on 1 and loses 11-0, and still is on the court later that evening shooting threes until he gets 12 while the other kid is already home fucking his girl.

Next day Jamez is like "i won bitch".

Such a twisted sense of reality.

On another note anybody gonna pick up the new book that just came out that has many people go on the record saying that Bush and Co. cooked the books and ordered the CIA to falsify information and dismiss credible evidence proving Iraq is far from a threat? Ordering now as we speak. :)

[jameznyhc]

I read Jamez post claiming that Iraq was a nuclear threat and Saddam had his finger on the button and the only thing that comes to mind is a kid who plays someone else 1 on 1 and loses 11-0, and still is on the court later that evening shooting threes until he gets 12 while the other kid is already home fucking his girl.

Next day Jamez is like "i won bitch".

Such a twisted sense of reality.

On another note anybody gonna pick up the new book that just came out that has many people go on the record saying that Bush and Co. cooked the books and ordered the CIA to falsify information and dismiss credible evidence proving Iraq is far from a threat? Ordering now as we speak. :)

wrong pigeon as allways ...I said if we didnt attack imagine dealing with iraq and iran both trying to go nuclear today ...Thankgod israel did a good job in 1980 ..then clinton in 98..then bush jr in 03 .. israels is credited for syria this past year .. ...next up Iran :heythere

[admin]

you guys keep saying that Iraq is better off because of the war. Like some of you have family there, you really care that much? The big question is; is US better off because of the war? Losing 1 trillion dollars, over 3000 soldiers, being hated all over the world, our military is diplitated.



There is genecide going on in Africa, I don't see us sending troops.

Sure I blame CIA on poor intelligence, but I'm also not the president who has access to a lot more info then me. It's the president’s responsibility to make sure we are 100% correct before starting a war.
Bush didn’t go to war because of UN resolution 1441,. Bush had personal vendara against Saddam because he tried to kill his father plus used his father face as a floor mat in front of a government building in Iraq. After 9-11 Bush seen a perfect opportunity to attack Iraq, totaly abuse of power. If he cared about UN resolution 1441 so much why didn't he do something before 9-11?



If Bush is such a great president why is his approval rating the lowest in history? Will go down in history as the worst president.<o:p></o:p>

[jameznyhc]

you guys keep saying that Iraq is better off because of the war. Like some of you have family there, you really care that much? The big question is; is US better off because of the war? Losing 1 trillion dollars, over 3000 soldiers, being hated all over the world, our military is diplitated.



There is genecide going on in Africa, I don't see us sending troops.

Sure I blame CIA on poor intelligence, but I'm also not the president who has access to a lot more info then me. It's the president’s responsibility to make sure we are 100% correct before starting a war.
Bush didn’t go to war because of UN resolution 1441,. Bush had personal vendara against Saddam because he tried to kill his father plus used his father face as a floor mat in front of a government building in Iraq. After 9-11 Bush seen a perfect opportunity to attack Iraq, totaly abuse of power. If he cared about UN resolution 1441 so much why didn't he do something before 9-11?



If Bush is such a great president why is his approval rating the lowest in history? Will go down in history as the worst president.<o:p></o:p>

Wrong Dmitry bush saw the same intelligence that hillary and akll the other dems saw..thats why they pushed to vote for the war in oct 2002 correct?? why did the dems all vote for war when they had the same access as bush?? ..see the dems wanted to look like hawks before nov elections ... Secondly why did bush go to the UN and get all these other countries to join us?? why not just sneak attack like clinton did and bypass everyone ..or do you believe clinton lied to us as well it was a big bad usa conspiracy??

Lol you just admitted Sadaam tried to kill bush's family how was he not a threat???

what about putin and china and france arming sadaam?? how would sanctions work ..what do people say about that in russia?? do they even know or does their media black it out ??

Why did tony blair and britain lie..or berlusconi and italy lie why was there intelligence wrong as well??

I dont think it was ..lol we did find 500lbs of yellowcake ..

Darfur is disgusting but who led the charges and way to labe it a genocide way before the un ..you got it george bush ..back in 04.. Now the reason we dont go in is they havent invaded their neighbors and used wmds like sadaam did ..there goal is not to kill bushs family or blow up america like sadaams was ..

again really bad presidents dont get reelected .. ..we bombed iraq march of 03 .. bush won the 04 elections

i think we are much safer also like JK stated zarqawi, qaeda and the terrorists were drawn into iraq.. now why havent we been attacked since 9/11?? simple its better to fight them there than here .. why were we hit so much before 9/11?? clintons appeasement

[admin]

Wrong Dmitry bush saw the same intelligence that hillary and akll the other dems saw..thats why they pushed to vote for the war in oct 2002 correct?? why did the dems all vote for war when they had the same access as bush ... Secondly why did bush go to the UN and get all these other countries to join us?? why not just sneak attack like clinton did

Lol you just admitted Sadaam tried to kill bush's family how was he not a threat???

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as for the treat, you may have a point there, but no war should be started because of that.

btw why did you dodge my question?
is US better off because of the war?

[jameznyhc]

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as for the treat, you may have a point there, but no war should be started because of that.

btw why did you dodge my question?
is US better off because of the war?

yes we are heres why

nobody had the balls to attack us since 9/11

if they did they were drawn into iraq where we beat al qaeda and decimated them and killed zarqawi..We also beat iran and mugtada al sadyr

Look at the results we got from libya and NK ..both asgreed to end their nuke programs ..(under clinton they were building nukes)

We dont have to worry about Sadaam killing our president or releasing sarin gas in mass subways as he planned to do .. so yes we havent been attacked .. and now instead of dealing with both iraq and iran we only have iran to deal with ..how far along would sadaams wmd program have been today ..

we gave sadaam 12 long years ..

now andswer mine lol did clinton lie in 98 about sadaams wmds??

Bush gave sadaam every oppurtunity to avoid war ..just as he did with libya and NK .. they cooperated sadaam would never of

[jameznyhc]

so why did clinton help bush lie about iraq way back in 98?? lmao

The December 1998 bombing of Iraq (code-named Operation Desert Fox) was a major four-day bombing campaign on Iraqi targets from December 16-December 19, 1998 by the United States and United Kingdom. These strikes were officially undertaken in response to Iraq's continued failure to comply with United Nations Security Council resolutions as well as their interference with United Nations Special Commission inspectors.

It was a major flare-up in the Iraq disarmament crisis. The stated goal of the cruise missile and bombing attacks was to disrupt Saddam's ability to maintain his grip on power.

On October 31, 1998 US President Bill Clinton had signed into law H.R. 4655, the Iraq Liberation Act.[1] The new Act appropriated funds to Iraqi opposition groups in the hope of removing Saddam Hussein from power and replacing his regime with a democracy.

[CraftyVet16]

yes we are heres why

nobody had the balls to attack us since 9/11

if they did they were drawn into iraq where we beat al qaeda and decimated them and killed zarqawi..We also beat iran and mugtada al sadyr

Look at the results we got from libya and NK ..both asgreed to end their nuke programs ..(under clinton they were building nukes)

We dont have to worry about Sadaam killing our president or releasing sarin gas in mass subways as he planned to do .. so yes we havent been attacked .. and now instead of dealing with both iraq and iran we only have iran to deal with ..how far along would sadaams wmd program have been today ..

we gave sadaam 12 long years ..

now andswer mine lol did clinton lie in 98 about sadaams wmds??

Bush gave sadaam every oppurtunity to avoid war ..just as he did with libya and NK .. they cooperated sadaam would never of


they didn't have to attack us they killed 4000+ of our innocent soldiers....... thats just as effective as an attack.... it would have taken them alot more time and money to attack us here and kill 4000 people..... so they just stayed in the own region and did it there.....

[John Kennedy]

so why did clinton help bush lie about iraq way back in 98?? lmao

The December 1998 bombing of Iraq (code-named Operation Desert Fox) was a major four-day bombing campaign on Iraqi targets from December 16-December 19, 1998 by the United States and United Kingdom. These strikes were officially undertaken in response to Iraq's continued failure to comply with United Nations Security Council resolutions as well as their interference with United Nations Special Commission inspectors.

It was a major flare-up in the Iraq disarmament crisis. The stated goal of the cruise missile and bombing attacks was to disrupt Saddam's ability to maintain his grip on power.

On October 31, 1998 US President Bill Clinton had signed into law H.R. 4655, the Iraq Liberation Act.[1] The new Act appropriated funds to Iraqi opposition groups in the hope of removing Saddam Hussein from power and replacing his regime with a democracy.

that sounds like a better and more effective mission than a 5+ year aimless invasion/ground war/occupation. How many troops died in Desert Fox?

[jameznyhc]

that sounds like a better and more effective mission than a 5+ year aimless invasion/ground war/occupation. How many troops died in Desert Fox?



Not my point ..did clinton lie like bush did??

Now operation desert fox really pissed the world off ..google it ..we didnt even check with the Un ..and Clinton orderd it secretly with Tony Blair.. Was blair lying back then also ?? did Bush jr orchestrate this whole thing going back to the 90s ?? LMAO!!! come on man

Why Clinton failed at stopping Sadaam .. only a fool makes the same mistake twice.. we bombed iraq in 91 and gave sadaam another chance ..sadaam then committed another genocide against the kurds, shot at our planes, restarted his wmd program, Tried to Murder bush senior and his family, bribed russian chinese and french cocksuckers with oil vouchers ..so Clinton could not get the vote on the security council .. just like with bush .. so Clinton pre-emptively ATTACKED iraq with out a un resoltuion or even NATO ..who did clinton hire afterwards ..TA DA haliburton my friends .. hahahaha do you see how insane you all sound .. ya see with bush he had NATO ..With Bush he tried for 18 months to get the UN on board ..who stopped us?? yep Russia china and france.. who was making sanctions impossible ..

This is why dems are anti american they rather blame bush than Sadaam and his hoodlum commie pals ..

Why didnt they smear Clinton like this?? simple up until howard dean every dem was gung ho to go into iraq ..including JK and Dmitry ...case closed

[jameznyhc]

Heres bill clinton ..lol did bush put him up to this ..cause slickster says sadaam had wmds and missles to deliver them .. after 9/11 no more containment ..ya see there was a reason sadaam was bribing russia france and china ..why?? ..why would he give billions in oil vouchers?? hmmm

For nearly a decade, Iraq has defied its obligations to destroy its weapons of terror and the missiles to deliver them. America will continue to contain Saddam, and we will work for the day when Iraq has a government worthy of its people.

Now, last month, in our action over Iraq, our troops were superb. Their mission was so flawlessly executed, that we risk taking for granted the bravery and the skill it required. Captain Jeff Taliaferro, a 10-year veteran of the Air Force, flew a B-1B bomber over Iraq as we attacked Saddam's war machine. He is here with us tonight. I'd like to ask you to honor him and all the 33,000 men and women of Operation Desert Fox. Captain Taliaferro.



Bill Clinton 1998

[metfan85]

they didn't have to attack us they killed 4000+ of our innocent soldiers....... thats just as effective as an attack.... it would have taken them alot more time and money to attack us here and kill 4000 people..... so they just stayed in the own region and did it there.....

seriously man.. they killed more Americans since 9/11 than on 9/11 and they saved money on gas coming over here to kill us

[jameznyhc]

seriously man.. they killed more Americans since 9/11 than on 9/11 and they saved money on gas coming over here to kill us

yes but how many lives were saved?? we killed way over 30k terrorists and kicked al qaedas ass .. they didnt die in vain ..bush was right fight them there not here.. how many americans died from 83-01..innocent civilians i may add.. we havent lost one since 9/11..were safer and better off.. there blowing up europe ..not us

[John Kennedy]

Heres bill clinton ..lol did bush put him up to this ..cause slickster says sadaam had wmds and missles to deliver them .. after 9/11 no more containment ..ya see there was a reason sadaam was bribing russia france and china ..why?? ..why would he give billions in oil vouchers?? hmmm

For nearly a decade, Iraq has defied its obligations to destroy its weapons of terror and the missiles to deliver them. America will continue to contain Saddam, and we will work for the day when Iraq has a government worthy of its people.

Now, last month, in our action over Iraq, our troops were superb. Their mission was so flawlessly executed, that we risk taking for granted the bravery and the skill it required. Captain Jeff Taliaferro, a 10-year veteran of the Air Force, flew a B-1B bomber over Iraq as we attacked Saddam's war machine. He is here with us tonight. I'd like to ask you to honor him and all the 33,000 men and women of Operation Desert Fox. Captain Taliaferro.



Bill Clinton 1998

Clinton saw a threat and destroyed it. He succeeded in containing him and keeping us out of harms way in the process. Saddam wasn't a threat after 98.. if he tried again, he'd get attacked again. This is what Bush failed at doing.. he bit off more than he could chew and wasted our resources and lives. Eventually Iraq will be fine, but the past 5 years of failure are Bush's fault, you can't deny that.

[ShaE]

a country being better off w/o their dictator is not a good enough reason to justify a war of this cost and magnitude in lives, money, and reputation. anybody who tries to look back in hindsight and say this was worth it is so full of shit it's coming out their ears.

it's quite simple, doesn't matter who else had the intel, or what congress approved (though they were wrong to do so), the COMMANDER IN CHIEF takes us to war and his equally retarded defense secretary runs it. both of them put the plan into motion, war cannot happen if they don't want it to, so the buck stops with them. congress can authorize all they want, the president sends troops into battle and he chose to do so stupidly, on poor intel, and with zero plan past the first few days.

passing this off onto clinton? or god knows who is blatant deflection. cmon.

[jameznyhc]

Clinton saw a threat and destroyed it. He succeeded in containing him and keeping us out of harms way in the process. Saddam wasn't a threat after 98.. if he tried again, he'd get attacked again. This is what Bush failed at doing.. he bit off more than he could chew and wasted our resources and lives. Eventually Iraq will be fine, but the past 5 years of failure are Bush's fault, you can't deny that.

your wrong heres why ..after clinton bombed iraq Sadaam sstarted again .. he didnt learn from senior or clinton he had the russians paid off.. now do you agree with clintons move t snub the un and just sneak attack? ...i didnt bush was smarter to get NATO on board .. also during that time Al qaeda saw we were soft and stepped up attacks against us and our embassies and our military ships lol ..we were loosing big time

as for the war.. the invasion was a stunning success.. 3 days not one troop lost .. rummmy fucked up the insurgency bush deserves blame .. bus fires rummy 2 years ago ..sticks to his word turns the war around and now we leave victorius ..while we beat al qaeda on the battlefield ... bushs plan was better .. when i see al qaeda hitting us again like they did in the 90s ..and when i see maliki building nukes ..ill admit i was wrong lol

So were you against the execution or against the war?? if you were against the execution as i was youd be as happy about the surge as iam

[jameznyhc]

a country being better off w/o their dictator is not a good enough reason to justify a war of this cost and magnitude in lives, money, and reputation. anybody who tries to look back in hindsight and say this was worth it is so full of shit it's coming out their ears.

it's quite simple, doesn't matter who else had the intel, or what congress approved (though they were wrong to do so), the COMMANDER IN CHIEF takes us to war and his equally retarded defense secretary runs it. both of them put the plan into motion, war cannot happen if they don't want it to, so the buck stops with them. congress can authorize all they want, the president sends troops into battle and he chose to do so stupidly, on poor intel, and with zero plan past the first few days.

passing this off onto clinton? or god knows who is blatant deflection. cmon.

and he turned into a stunning success that even defeckted said nobody imagined violence would drop so quick .. imagine if kerry won?? holy shit we'd be fucked

[John Kennedy]

yes but how many lives were saved?? we killed way over 30k terrorists and kicked al qaedas ass .. they didnt die in vain ..bush was right fight them there not here.. how many americans died from 83-01..innocent civilians i may add.. we havent lost one since 9/11..were safer and better off.. there blowing up europe ..not us

we haven't lost one since 2001? you don't count our troops deaths as terror acts? Since Al Qaeda was fighting us there not here. Those are Al Qaeda inflicted deaths... paint it however you wanna paint it.

[jameznyhc]

we haven't lost one since 2001? you don't count our troops deaths as terror acts? Since Al Qaeda was fighting us there not here. Those are Al Qaeda inflicted deaths... paint it however you wanna paint it.

so youd rather them be here?? lol

[John Kennedy]

your wrong heres why ..after clinton bombed iraq Sadaam sstarted again .. he didnt learn from senior or clinton he had the russians paid off.. now do you agree with clintons move t snub the un and just sneak attack? ...i didnt bush was smarter to get NATO on board .. also during that time Al qaeda saw we were soft and stepped up attacks against us and our embassies and our military ships lol ..we were loosing big time

as for the war.. the invasion was a stunning success.. 3 days not one troop lost .. rummmy fucked up the insurgency bush deserves blame .. bus fires rummy 2 years ago ..sticks to his word turns the war around and now we leave victorius ..while we beat al qaeda on the battlefield ... bushs plan was better .. when i see al qaeda hitting us again like they did in the 90s ..and when i see maliki building nukes ..ill admit i was wrong lol

So were you against the execution or against the war?? if you were against the execution as i was youd be as happy about the surge as iam

He started his ambitions again, but didn't have any capabilities.. one soldier lost to a war that wasn't an immediate threat is one too many. We had other fish to fry, Afghanistan wasn't secure yet, Pakistan, Indonesia had/has cells.. Iraq had none.. Zarqawi could've been taken out without a ground invasion/occupation. We could've contained Saddam with surgical attacks alone and he would've continued to remain useless.. but Bush wanted his legacy to read: removed Saddam. It had nothing to do with a threat to us as a country, as U.S. citizens.. it was a political move, a move for his legacy. Which backfired on him because of poor execution and exxagerations and misplaced promises.

I was for containment of Saddam with military force, same way I was for it with Clinton.. If Saddam was trying to take over oil fields or build nukes to hit his neighbors which would create a security concern to us, he should be held back. If we are being threatened, we should attack, with or without UN approval. If we find bin Laden, we should take him out, with or without UN approval, with or without anyones permission. Why wouldn't I be? What idiot doesn't support their own protection/justice without the permission of a country 4k miles away from us? Especially when Iraq was dealing with Russia and China directly, they'd never approve it, even if they supported it.

[John Kennedy]

so youd rather them be here?? lol

I have a hard time believing Zarqawi was on his way to NYC... wherever he was, he could've been taken out, without the ground invasion.

[jameznyhc]

He started his ambitions again, but didn't have any capabilities.. one soldier lost to a war that wasn't an immediate threat is one too many. We had other fish to fry, Afghanistan wasn't secure yet, Pakistan, Indonesia had/has cells.. Iraq had none.. Zarqawi could've been taken out without a ground invasion/occupation. We could've contained Saddam with surgical attacks alone and he would've continued to remain useless.. but Bush wanted his legacy to read: removed Saddam. It had nothing to do with a threat to us as a country, as U.S. citizens.. it was a political move, a move for his legacy. Which backfired on him because of poor execution and exxagerations and misplaced promises.

I was for containment of Saddam with military force, same way I was for it with Clinton.. If Saddam was trying to take over oil fields or build nukes to hit his neighbors which would create a security concern to us, he should be held back. If we are being threatened, we should attack, with or without UN approval. If we find bin Laden, we should take him out, with or without UN approval, with or without anyones permission. Why wouldn't I be? What idiot doesn't support their own protection/justice without the permission of a country 4k miles away from us? Especially when Iraq was dealing with Russia and China directly, they'd never approve it, even if they supported it.

And thats why your the most pro american dem ive ever talked with ..

[ShaE]

and he turned into a stunning success that even defeckted said nobody imagined violence would drop so quick .. imagine if kerry won?? holy shit we'd be fucked
you call iraq a stunning success?

conversation ending here.

[ShaE]

And thats why your the most pro american dem ive ever talked with ..
with the alternative being anti-american dem, a completely retarded idea :disgusted

[jameznyhc]

with the alternative being anti-american dem, a completely retarded idea :disgusted

yes thats the piece of shit lefties who to abroad and say bush lied just to slander him .. and give the islamists reason to hate us more.. they never said clinton lied .. thats why there anti american scumbags :heythere

[ShaE]

yes thats the piece of shit lefties who to abroad and say bush lied just to slander him .. and give the islamists reason to hate us more.. they never said clinton lied .. thats why there anti american scumbags :heythere
mmhmmm

[admin]

yes we are heres why

nobody had the balls to attack us since 9/11

if they did they were drawn into iraq where we beat al qaeda and decimated them and killed zarqawi..We also beat iran and mugtada al sadyr

Look at the results we got from libya and NK ..both asgreed to end their nuke programs ..(under clinton they were building nukes)

We dont have to worry about Sadaam killing our president or releasing sarin gas in mass subways as he planned to do .. so yes we havent been attacked .. and now instead of dealing with both iraq and iran we only have iran to deal with ..how far along would sadaams wmd program have been today ..

we gave sadaam 12 long years ..

now andswer mine lol did clinton lie in 98 about sadaams wmds??

Bush gave sadaam every oppurtunity to avoid war ..just as he did with libya and NK .. they cooperated sadaam would never of


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mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> You seriously think we are better off because of this war, you are crazy bro.
we beat Iran? wtf, what papers are you reading? As far as I see it Iran is winning, they don’t care about sanctions and will have nuke within 3 years.<o:p></o:p>
9-11 took years to plan, just because there was no attack on us doesn't mean there won’t be one tomorrow.
It doesn't matter if Clinton lied, he didn't start a war over it plus didn't cost us 1 trillion dollars plus 3000 lives.
Our biggest threat is Iran and Pakistan. If Pakistan government gets overthrown we are fucked. We can't do shit against either countries cause US credibility is zero, our Military is not the same as it was pre Iraq war.<o:p></o:p>

[admin]

James do you ever agree with anyone's comments. Seems like you love to disagree.

[admin]

a country being better off w/o their dictator is not a good enough reason to justify a war of this cost and magnitude in lives, money, and reputation. anybody who tries to look back in hindsight and say this was worth it is so full of shit it's coming out their ears.

it's quite simple, doesn't matter who else had the intel, or what congress approved (though they were wrong to do so), the COMMANDER IN CHIEF takes us to war and his equally retarded defense secretary runs it. both of them put the plan into motion, war cannot happen if they don't want it to, so the buck stops with them. congress can authorize all they want, the president sends troops into battle and he chose to do so stupidly, on poor intel, and with zero plan past the first few days.

passing this off onto clinton? or god knows who is blatant deflection. cmon.

well said!

Also why does James automatically think one is a Clinton supporter if they are anti-Bush?

[admin]

Hey James if Bush could run for the 3rd term, would you vote for him?

[ShaE]

well said!

Also why does James automatically think one is a Clinton supporter if they are anti-Bush?
for the same reason he throws the looney liberal america hating label on you if you disagree w/ him.

it's just his logic lol

[jameznyhc]

well said!

Also why does James automatically think one is a Clinton supporter if they are anti-Bush?

never said that ..i said lefties who accuse bush of lying never accussed clinton of lying ..i wonder why?

[jameznyhc]

for the same reason he throws the looney liberal america hating label on you if you disagree w/ him.

it's just his logic lol

ahh maybe you missed what i said to JK..theres plent of pro american dems .. theres also the lefty america haters..when a madman tries to kill our president thats a real serious threat sorry ..But again your a hypocrit shae cause you said you'd be willing to go to war with iran over israels security right?? lol

[metfan85]

I have a hard time believing Zarqawi was on his way to NYC....

I dunno man I thought I saw him drivin up 95 with a big bag that said TNT and a New York or Bust bumper sticker

[metfan85]

a country being better off w/o their dictator is not a good enough reason to justify a war of this cost and magnitude in lives, money, and reputation. anybody who tries to look back in hindsight and say this was worth it is so full of shit it's coming out their ears.

it's quite simple, doesn't matter who else had the intel, or what congress approved (though they were wrong to do so), the COMMANDER IN CHIEF takes us to war and his equally retarded defense secretary runs it. both of them put the plan into motion, war cannot happen if they don't want it to, so the buck stops with them. congress can authorize all they want, the president sends troops into battle and he chose to do so stupidly, on poor intel, and with zero plan past the first few days.

passing this off onto clinton? or god knows who is blatant deflection. cmon.


reminds of Andrew Jackson
"The Court has made their decision, now let them enforce it!"

[Benny B]

I dunno man I thought I saw him drivin up 95 with a big bag that said TNT and a New York or Bust bumper sticker

actually it was acme rockets.

[metfan85]

actually it was acme rockets.

Damn acme i say congress investigates..theyll sell to anyone no loyalty at all. first the roadrunner and now al qeada

[Benny B]

Damn acme i say congress investigates..theyll sell to anyone no loyalty at all. first the roadrunner and now al qeada

yeah apparently it was a no bid contract too.. better subpoena the masses in the caves.

[John Kennedy]

I dunno man I thought I saw him drivin up 95 with a big bag that said TNT and a New York or Bust bumper sticker

and a Bush Cheney 04 sticker

[metfan85]

and a Bush Cheney 04 sticker

and the dems thought '04 was rigged. they had broad support even the Gallactic Empire was for Bush

[jameznyhc]

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mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> You seriously think we are better off because of this war, you are crazy bro.
we beat Iran? wtf, what papers are you reading? As far as I see it Iran is winning, they don’t care about sanctions and will have nuke within 3 years.<o:p></o:p>
9-11 took years to plan, just because there was no attack on us doesn't mean there won’t be one tomorrow.
It doesn't matter if Clinton lied, he didn't start a war over it plus didn't cost us 1 trillion dollars plus 3000 lives.
Our biggest threat is Iran and Pakistan. If Pakistan government gets overthrown we are fucked. We can't do shit against either countries cause US credibility is zero, our Military is not the same as it was pre Iraq war.<o:p></o:p>

why is armijihad a bigger threat than sadaaam??

Clinton did start a war ..the differnce is he didnt finish it..

Now why would a nuclear iraq be a better alternative??

[jameznyhc]

James do you ever agree with anyone's comments. Seems like you love to disagree.

I just believe Sadaam was real threat..so did you ..so did most dems ..america was unitedi ..i supported clinton when he bombed iraq in 98 and he a dem ..i didnt try to discredit clinton .. again you would have to be retarded to think he wasnt ..why did you support this war ?? and what made you disgree?? ..what made you say hey i was wrong, sadaam was never a threat, Bush was the bad guy?? cause you voted for bush well after the war started..so why do you think it would be better to deal with a nuclear iraq?? why would it been better if we let him create his wmds??

[jameznyhc]

I have a hard time believing Zarqawi was on his way to NYC... wherever he was, he could've been taken out, without the ground invasion.

why?? osamas boys made it here ..zarqawi joined al qaeda...

[CraftyVet16]

why?? osamas boys made it here ..zarqawi joined al qaeda...

everyone know that the al qaeda we fought in iraq was not the real one that attacked us.... it was a second rate team, that wqs just labeled al qaeda... the ones who attacked us are still doing fine

[ShaE]

everyone know that the al qaeda we fought in iraq was not the real one that attacked us.... it was a second rate team, that wqs just labeled al qaeda... the ones who attacked us are still doing fine
alive and well

[jameznyhc]

alive and well

in the 90s yes i agree ..flooded with cash, attacking us consistently .. so shae why have they now resorted to killing their own in pakistan and SA???.. instead of us?

[ShaE]

in the 90s yes i agree ..flooded with cash, attacking us consistently .. so shae why have they now resorted to killing their own in pakistan and SA???.. instead of us?
nope i meant now.
and i dont think it's instead of, it's in addition to, we are in no way out of the woods. maybe you sleep better at nite, but I dont, you're nuts if you think they're not planning shit. you think they just gave up? now their buddies in afghanistan are up to old tricks again, does not bode well.

[jameznyhc]

nope i meant now.
and i dont think it's instead of, it's in addition to, we are in no way out of the woods. maybe you sleep better at nite, but I dont, you're nuts if you think they're not planning shit. you think they just gave up? now their buddies in afghanistan are up to old tricks again, does not bode well.

i didnt say they gave up ..they just attacking their own people now, spain, australia, and they blew up the danish embassy ... but they wont dare fuck with us.. there waiting for Bush to leave ..again why havent they attacked us?? ..yet they attack europe and the middle east ..hmm makes you wonder

[ShaE]

i didnt say they gave up ..they just attacking their own people now, spain, australia, and they blew up the danish embassy ... but they wont dare fuck with us.. there waiting for Bush to leave ..again why havent they attacked us?? ..yet they attack europe and the middle east ..hmm makes you wonder
you dont think they gave up, but you think they wont dare fuck w/ us?

wow. ok.

[jameznyhc]

you dont think they gave up, but you think they wont dare fuck w/ us?

wow. ok.

oh they will after bush leaves office .. they will test the new American president ..why on earth are they attacking countries like spain who wouldnt even help us in iraq?? lol ..they feed off weakness

[ShaE]

oh they will after bush leaves office .. they will test the new American president ..why on earth are they attacking countries like spain who wouldnt even help us in iraq?? lol ..they feed off weakness
you mean smart countries like spain who didnt want to get involved in a retarded clusterfuck?

test the new president? feed off weakness? you dont LOOK or GET any weaker than george bush. what exposes your country's weakness more than being unable to catch osama, staging a stupid war in iraq, losing control in afghanistan and allowing the taliban to resurge, and putting your nation's economy as well as the well being of the military, in the shitter?

yea, we're strong as hell right now, they're waiting for the next weak president :rolleyes:

[ShaE]

and can i hold you to this? that you expect an attack from al qaeda on the us upon bush leaving office?

[jameznyhc]

nope i meant now.
and i dont think it's instead of, it's in addition to, we are in no way out of the woods. maybe you sleep better at nite, but I dont, you're nuts if you think they're not planning shit. you think they just gave up? now their buddies in afghanistan are up to old tricks again, does not bode well.

wait a minute is shae karl rove now?? lol ..I thought fear mongering pissed you off lol

[admin]

why is armijihad a bigger threat than sadaaam??

Clinton did start a war ..the differnce is he didnt finish it..

Now why would a nuclear iraq be a better alternative??

Ahmadinejad is actually building nukes, we know it for a fact (well he saying its for energy). Saddam never said he's building anything. Saddam tried to build them but Israel took care of that, thank god, but that was a log time ago. Armjamajad threatens to blow up Israel, I don't remember Saddam making same threats, but I could be wrong.

[admin]

I just believe Sadaam was real threat..so did you ..so did most dems ..america was unitedi ..i supported clinton when he bombed iraq in 98 and he a dem ..i didnt try to discredit clinton .. again you would have to be retarded to think he wasnt ..why did you support this war ?? and what made you disgree?? ..what made you say hey i was wrong, sadaam was never a threat, Bush was the bad guy?? cause you voted for bush well after the war started..so why do you think it would be better to deal with a nuclear iraq?? why would it been better if we let him create his wmds??

you misunderstood me, I mean in general in this forum.

[jameznyhc]

Ahmadinejad is actually building nukes, we know it for a fact (well he saying its for energy). Saddam never said he's building anything. Saddam tried to build them but Israel took care of that, thank god, but that was a log time ago. Armjamajad threatens to blow up Israel, I don't remember Saddam making same threats, but I could be wrong.

Lol sadaam bragged about his WMDs and tried to kill our President ..he invaded other nations and used WMD's against them ..he was plotting to use sarin gas to attack NYC.. And why did we find 500lbs of yellowcake Uranium ?? theres only one reason you would have that .. As for threating to blow up israel?? nope sadaam actually tried to..he didnt just talk he backed his words up with action ..thats why the guy was so fuckin dangerous he didnt use threats he launched scud missiles at israel lol
..he also payed familes of suicide bombers from palestine ..not too mention he shot at american and british planes in no fly zones .. now i dont believe Clinton was a war mongerer .. so for Clinton to bomb iraq i believe the intelligence was dead on ..the yellowcake finding confirm tthat

[metfan85]

Ahmadinejad is actually building nukes, we know it for a fact (well he saying its for energy). Saddam never said he's building anything. Saddam tried to build them but Israel took care of that, thank god, but that was a log time ago. Armjamajad threatens to blow up Israel, I don't remember Saddam making same threats, but I could be wrong.

yup and yet we went to war with Iraq, so why arent we in Iran ... not saying we should be in Iran, i think we shouldnt be in that region at all. Iran threatening Israel, does not put me in danger

[jameznyhc]

you misunderstood me, I mean in general in this forum.

Well to be honest Dmitry as we saw in the dancefloor thread we have republicans on this board ..some still post on the board but wont set foot in this forum ..others have simply retired ..in the 04 election cycle it was way more balanced

michaelangelo rarely posts in here anymore, Capt america/maasimo never comes in here, Lolz who was my favorite is gone, Gene is gone, Sum ashy larry is gone ,Drumaboy donato did a 360 from 4 years ago, Mark phuck you is gone, JP fast rarely posts in here i agree with him alot, Your girl Eleni & leon no longer really posts in here, Sgt chaos has stated he doesnt like discussing politics with his friends he has alot of personal friends on this board (i can totally understand that) ...So im the last one of the old skool forum republicans lol ..i agree with benny and tanya, on most issues .a.and i agree with alex on 80% of the issues ..we used to agree at one time as well ..

[jameznyhc]

yup and yet we went to war with Iraq, so why arent we in Iran ... not saying we should be in Iran, i think we shouldnt be in that region at all. Iran threatening Israel, does not put me in danger

Thjeres no comparing armijihads record to Sadaams .. Sadaam was all action no talk ...Armijihad is the absolut opposite .. We really have no basis to bomb unless Bush presented the american public with solid evidence they were killing our soldiers on the batttlefields of iraq (which i believe to be 100% true).. why he doesnt do this?? well like the sarge stated ..if only we could have ronbo in this day and age

[jameznyhc]

Hey James if Bush could run for the 3rd term, would you vote for him?

no id sit it out ..he blew it with increasing govt, increasing spending and installing somewhat socialist policy to make it easier for dems to socialize medicine with prescription drug card ..he deserves to be fired like the congress of 06 was. and like his father was fired by the american public after one term .the only thing he got right was tax cuts and the war on terror ..these are the 2 most important issues to me ..but this is why we have term limits thankfreakingod..He also lost his ability to speak from the heart .. They couldnt break reagan (the anti american lowlives) but they certainly have broken bush ..

[ShaE]

wait a minute is shae karl rove now?? lol ..I thought fear mongering pissed you off lol
i'm not fear mongering, i'm saying I"m not convinced al qaeda is done w/ us merely b/c they haven't hit us recently.

how is that drumming up baseless fear , exaggerating,for my own advantage? you're out of your bird.
there's nothing exaggerated or baseless about finding al qaeda to still be a threat. i dont recommend living your life in paranoid fear, but acting like they're too afraid to fuck with us is dangerous and stupid as well.

do you not understand realism? saying we need to be careful is not fear mongering, but no, i should know better by now than to expect you to see reason.

[ShaE]

Well to be honest Dmitry as we saw in the dancefloor thread we have republicans on this board ..some still post on the board but wont set foot in this forum ..others have simply retired ..in the 04 election cycle it was way more balanced

michaelangelo rarely posts in here anymore, Capt america/maasimo never comes in here, Lolz who was my favorite is gone, Gene is gone, Sum ashy larry is gone ,Drumaboy donato did a 360 from 4 years ago, Mark phuck you is gone, JP fast rarely posts in here i agree with him alot, Your girl Eleni & leon no longer really posts in here, Sgt chaos has stated he doesnt like discussing politics with his friends he has alot of personal friends on this board (i can totally understand that) ...So im the last one of the old skool forum republicans lol ..i agree with benny and tanya, on most issues .a.and i agree with alex on 80% of the issues ..we used to agree at one time as well ..
agreement is overrated. nobody here shares my views 100%, if they did, it'd be pretty boring talking to them.

and if i were an old school republican, i probably wouldn't post much either considering they're a dying breed, who certainly are not at all represented by this white house & there isn't much news going on for them.

frankly i wouldn't mind that, metfan has some traditional conservative views, you aren't really like that. you like to label anyone who disagrees w/ you as anti american, liberal, or god knows what. he doesnt run around calling everyone america hating libs, notice he gets a different response than you from others?

and some of the people you cited jamez were straight up troublemakers. you act like ashy larry and lolz were calm minded posters who were persecuted, they name called as much as anyone, and got into back and forth fights constantly. dont point the finger at the other side and act like nobody on yours participated fully.

anybody is welcome here, but don't cry if enough people don't agree w/ your views.that's not a good measuring tool for discussion.

[jameznyhc]

agreement is overrated. nobody here shares my views 100%, if they did, it'd be pretty boring talking to them.

and if i were an old school republican, i probably wouldn't post much either considering they're a dying breed, who certainly are not at all represented by this white house & there isn't much news going on for them.

frankly i wouldn't mind that, metfan has some traditional conservative views, you aren't really like that. you like to label anyone who disagrees w/ you as anti american, liberal, or god knows what. he doesnt run around calling everyone america hating libs, notice he gets a different response than you from others?

and some of the people you cited jamez were straight up troublemakers. you act like ashy larry and lolz were calm minded posters who were persecuted, they name called as much as anyone, and got into back and forth fights constantly. dont point the finger at the other side and act like nobody on yours participated fully.

anybody is welcome here, but don't cry if enough people don't agree w/ your views.that's not a good measuring tool for discussion.

Ashy and lolz responded ..but allways posted great articles and opions for discussion ..they both knew their shit as well ..so did cap america ..you may have disagreed but they were extremly intelligent

[ShaE]

Ashy and lolz responded ..but allways posted great articles and opions for discussion ..they both knew their shit as well ..so did cap america ..you may have disagreed but they were extremly intelligent
ashy was a troublemaker, lolz not so bad, and capn america was definitely smart and much more reasonable than they were.

you know jamez, some people have political views and just don't like to discuss them. you may find many republicans on the board, and i may know many democrats, that doesn't mean they have any interest in participating. you act like the fact that we have more dems right now is the reason all the other repubs dont post. i'm sorry, that's not true. i know dems on this board who don't post, b/c politics is not something they want to discuss on a messageboard. they have other interests, that's their choice. same for republicans. people can choose what they want. nobody deletes threads or posts here that don't follow their views, anybody's free to post whatever topic they want.

it's not my responsibility who comes and goes, and i can't create a balance of posters if there isn't one. if there's more dems, so be it, i remember distinctly when some of those people you mentioned used to post more, and bush was still popular, and i would get ripped for opposing him and his policies. by either phuck u, or massimo, or whomever. disagreement shouldn't deter somebody who is actually interested in discussion.

[jameznyhc]

ashy was a troublemaker, lolz not so bad, and capn america was definitely smart and much more reasonable than they were.

you know jamez, some people have political views and just don't like to discuss them. you may find many republicans on the board, and i may know many democrats, that doesn't mean they have any interest in participating. you act like the fact that we have more dems right now is the reason all the other repubs dont post. i'm sorry, that's not true. i know dems on this board who don't post, b/c politics is not something they want to discuss on a messageboard. they have other interests, that's their choice. same for republicans. people can choose what they want. nobody deletes threads or posts here that don't follow their views, anybody's free to post whatever topic they want.

it's not my responsibility who comes and goes, and i can't create a balance of posters if there isn't one. if there's more dems, so be it, i remember distinctly when some of those people you mentioned used to post more, and bush was still popular, and i would get ripped for opposing him and his policies. by either phuck u, or massimo, or whomever. disagreement shouldn't deter somebody who is actually interested in discussion.


Can you read ?? i said i remeber reading a post from seargent chaos where he does not discuss politics with his friends ..Becka tried to engage him ..I said i totally understand him ..my aunt married a looney lefty ..poltics is off the table when he is around im not going to rip family memebers, co workers and personal friends myself ..

[ShaE]

Can you read ?? i said i remeber reading a post from seargent chaos where he does not discuss politics with his friends ..Becka tried to engage him ..I said i totally understand him ..my aunt married a looney lefty ..poltics is off the table when he is around im not going to rip family memebers, co workers and personal friends myself ..
yes i can read, you specifically mentioned richie, i was referring to more people than just him. why the condescension?

[jameznyhc]

agreement is overrated. nobody here shares my views 100%, if they did, it'd be pretty boring talking to them.

and if i were an old school republican, i probably wouldn't post much either considering they're a dying breed, who certainly are not at all represented by this white house & there isn't much news going on for them.

frankly i wouldn't mind that, metfan has some traditional conservative views, you aren't really like that. you like to label anyone who disagrees w/ you as anti american, liberal, or god knows what. he doesnt run around calling everyone america hating libs, notice he gets a different response than you from others?

and some of the people you cited jamez were straight up troublemakers. you act like ashy larry and lolz were calm minded posters who were persecuted, they name called as much as anyone, and got into back and forth fights constantly. dont point the finger at the other side and act like nobody on yours participated fully.

anybody is welcome here, but don't cry if enough people don't agree w/ your views.that's not a good measuring tool for discussion.


i meanty old skool as in this forum lol ...your correct metfan a palaeo conservative ..im a regan republ;ican

[jameznyhc]

yes i can read, you specifically mentioned richie, i was referring to more people than just him. why the condescension?

I was using richies post as an example..meaning im sure theres plenty of otheers who feel that way

[jameznyhc]

yes i can read, you specifically mentioned richie, i was referring to more people than just him. why the condescension?

ahh nothin personal just a grouch this morning lol :heythere

[admin]

Well to be honest Dmitry as we saw in the dancefloor thread we have republicans on this board ..some still post on the board but wont set foot in this forum ..others have simply retired ..in the 04 election cycle it was way more balanced

michaelangelo rarely posts in here anymore, Capt america/maasimo never comes in here, Lolz who was my favorite is gone, Gene is gone, Sum ashy larry is gone ,Drumaboy donato did a 360 from 4 years ago, Mark phuck you is gone, JP fast rarely posts in here i agree with him alot, Your girl Eleni & leon no longer really posts in here, Sgt chaos has stated he doesnt like discussing politics with his friends he has alot of personal friends on this board (i can totally understand that) ...So im the last one of the old skool forum republicans lol ..i agree with benny and tanya, on most issues .a.and i agree with alex on 80% of the issues ..we used to agree at one time as well ..


You weren't here a few years ago, it was a total opposite, but a lot of people stopped defending bush including me, my brother and others. Bush split this country up. I stopped posting much cause its a waste of time, you won't change anyone's mind. My brother even told me 2 weeks ago that he's not going to put time in his forum anymore www.globalaffairs.org (http://www.globalaffairs.org) cause too many people lean to one side (like yourself) and arguing with them is a waste of time and energy.

[metfan85]

i meanty old skool as in this forum lol ...your correct metfan a palaeo conservative ..im a regan republ;ican

no im a real conservative. im not part of your war party. why do u think buckley and Gerald Ford robert novak all opposed Bush's actions in iraq. like ive been trying to tell you Reagan wasnt for invading the world like your neocon friends are. Reagan was a realist

[metfan85]

it's not my responsibility who comes and goes, and i can't create a balance of posters if there isn't one. if there's more dems, so be it, i remember distinctly when some of those people you mentioned used to post more, and bush was still popular, and i would get ripped for opposing him and his policies. by either phuck u, or massimo, or whomever. disagreement shouldn't deter somebody who is actually interested in discussion.

wow lol

james i find it ironic how your looking for a balance of posters on this board, but not a balance of powers in real life. kinda contradictory no?

[JustLikeHeaven]

no im a real conservative. im not part of your war party. why do u think buckley and Gerald Ford robert novak all opposed Bush's actions in iraq. like ive been trying to tell you Reagan wasnt for invading the world like your neocon friends are. Reagan was a realist

:yipee lol

[Benny B]

no im a real conservative. im not part of your war party. why do u think buckley and Gerald Ford robert novak all opposed Bush's actions in iraq. like ive been trying to tell you Reagan wasnt for invading the world like your neocon friends are. Reagan was a realist

i think me and you are pretty damn close to beign on the same page. lol

[metfan85]

i think me and you are pretty damn close to beign on the same page. lol

haha its a good page

[jameznyhc]

You weren't here a few years ago, it was a total opposite, but a lot of people stopped defending bush including me, my brother and others. Bush split this country up. I stopped posting much cause its a waste of time, you won't change anyone's mind. My brother even told me 2 weeks ago that he's not going to put time in his forum anymore www.globalaffairs.org (http://www.globalaffairs.org) cause too many people lean to one side (like yourself) and arguing with them is a waste of time and energy.

sure i was ..the last presidential cycle i remeber you were a big bush supporter lol ..so was donato ..re-read my post

[jameznyhc]

no im a real conservative. im not part of your war party. why do u think buckley and Gerald Ford robert novak all opposed Bush's actions in iraq. like ive been trying to tell you Reagan wasnt for invading the world like your neocon friends are. Reagan was a realist

I want bush to act like reagan did ..not send troops to georgia thats nuts .. but do what reagan did ..public criticism and confrontation with Russia while funding an insurgency like reagan did in el salvador ..this way are boys dont die .. and russia doesnt take control of europe again .. no americans die ..its a good solution

[Defekted]

I want bush to act like reagan did ..not send troops to georgia thats nuts .. but do what reagan did ..public criticism and confrontation with Russia while funding an insurgency like reagan did in el salvador ..this way are boys dont die .. and russia doesnt take control of europe again .. no americans die ..its a good solution

Like he did in el salvador? Do you know your 1980's history regarding our foreign policy in El Salvador and the rest of Central America including Nicaragua? lol. You would be proud. We funneled arms and money to the contras who wiped out entire villages indiscriminately.

Thats what you want to do where again? in Georgia?

You have such a shallow level of knowledge of history to start, and then to top it off, you move things around like its all interchangable.... like el salvador in the 80s is just like the old soviet republics of today..... like we can just throw our balls around here and there, back groups to kill "the other side" and let the "other side" kill them until the last one standing wins.....

with ZERO concern of the innocents, with ZERO concern that doing the "covert" operations usually translates to turning back the clock decades......

rather than diplomacy, rather than economic and social programs, you want to set up militias, and insurgencies..... to prolong this neocon bitchass dream........

its pathetic.

[jameznyhc]

Like he did in el salvador? Do you know your 1980's history regarding our foreign policy in El Salvador and the rest of Central America including Nicaragua? lol. You would be proud. We funneled arms and money to the contras who wiped out entire villages indiscriminately.

Thats what you want to do where again? in Georgia?

You have such a shallow level of knowledge of history to start, and then to top it off, you move things around like its all interchangable.... like el salvador in the 80s is just like the old soviet republics of today..... like we can just throw our balls around here and there, back groups to kill "the other side" and let the "other side" kill them until the last one standing wins.....

with ZERO concern of the innocents, with ZERO concern that doing the "covert" operations usually translates to turning back the clock decades......

rather than diplomacy, rather than economic and social programs, you want to set up militias, and insurgencies..... to prolong this neocon bitchass dream........

its pathetic.

Well Georgia sent troops in for us to iraq.. El salvador fought russian backed commies Reagan was right!!! ..I dont want to send troops in i want to support gerogia with arms the way putin supported sadaam and the way he arming Chavez .. nothing wrong with helping countries who sacrificed for us ..if not we are not honorable

[jameznyhc]

Like he did in el salvador? Do you know your 1980's history regarding our foreign policy in El Salvador and the rest of Central America including Nicaragua? lol. You would be proud. We funneled arms and money to the contras who wiped out entire villages indiscriminately.

Thats what you want to do where again? in Georgia?

You have such a shallow level of knowledge of history to start, and then to top it off, you move things around like its all interchangable.... like el salvador in the 80s is just like the old soviet republics of today..... like we can just throw our balls around here and there, back groups to kill "the other side" and let the "other side" kill them until the last one standing wins.....

with ZERO concern of the innocents, with ZERO concern that doing the "covert" operations usually translates to turning back the clock decades......

rather than diplomacy, rather than economic and social programs, you want to set up militias, and insurgencies..... to prolong this neocon bitchass dream........

its pathetic.


Hey diplomacy worked great with NK..libya so no im not against diplomacy if we have willing parties

[jameznyhc]

Like he did in el salvador? Do you know your 1980's history regarding our foreign policy in El Salvador and the rest of Central America including Nicaragua? lol. You would be proud. We funneled arms and money to the contras who wiped out entire villages indiscriminately.

Thats what you want to do where again? in Georgia?

You have such a shallow level of knowledge of history to start, and then to top it off, you move things around like its all interchangable.... like el salvador in the 80s is just like the old soviet republics of today..... like we can just throw our balls around here and there, back groups to kill "the other side" and let the "other side" kill them until the last one standing wins.....

with ZERO concern of the innocents, with ZERO concern that doing the "covert" operations usually translates to turning back the clock decades......

rather than diplomacy, rather than economic and social programs, you want to set up militias, and insurgencies..... to prolong this neocon bitchass dream........

its pathetic.


By the way where is your outrage?? and didnt you support bosnia??

[Defekted]

Well Georgia sent troops in for us to iraq.. El salvador fought russian backed commies Reagan was right!!! ..I dont want to send troops in i want to support gerogia with arms the way putin supported sadaam and the way he arming Chavez .. nothing wrong with helping countries who sacrificed for us ..if not we are not honorable

lol, nice try to white wash, or gloss over the ATROCITIES of the 80's thanks to the covert efforts of Reagan..... but who gives a fuck when a couple of tens of thousands of indigenous and leftists in central america get slaughtered by american funded contras....... because of their ideology? because they are farmers? please man..... nothing to be proud of.... but then again I would never be foolish to think you would ever care about the welfare of a Nicaraguan or a peasent from El Salvador..... they are dispensible right? and now in the case of this "new cold war" with russia, which im sure gets your neocon dick hard, we should do all this nonesense again?????? please save it..... this is nonesense..... enough with these war games..... im sick of it.....

and as for your brilliant reagan alot that did since you look at the map now and almost all of southamerica is leftist, lol....... so your theory of arming freedom loving fighters to fight the new nazis is all for not.

[jameznyhc]

lol, nice try to white wash, or gloss over the ATROCITIES of the 80's thanks to the covert efforts of Reagan..... but who gives a fuck when a couple of tens of thousands of indigenous and leftists in central america get slaughtered by american funded contras....... because of their ideology? because they are farmers? please man..... nothing to be proud of.... but then again I would never be foolish to think you would ever care about the welfare of a Nicaraguan or a peasent from El Salvador..... they are dispensible right? and now in the case of this "new cold war" with russia, which im sure gets your neocon dick hard, we should do all this nonesense again?????? please save it..... this is nonesense..... enough with these war games..... im sick of it.....

Reagan was right he prevailed son ..

[Defekted]

By the way where is your outrage?? and didnt you support bosnia??

This is far from the point that bosnia was at and I would rather EXHAUST ALL AVENUES before the first gun is fired........ I agree that the force that Russia is fighting is disproporationate, just like Israel on Lebanon, just like almost every other incident where there is a disputed land, an "adventurous" action by the weaker, and a rediculously harder response from the power.....

its a tale as old as time......

enough with the wars man...... this can be stopped with an internationally driven effort to stop it..... Russia still wants a seat at the table when it comes to world decisions.....

the problem here is our leverage is almost zero since our cowboy chimp of a president did what he did in Iraq.... i mean if we can fucking wipe out a country with just the "image" of a threat and without a single rifle fired, you think we have a single leg to stand on to tell russia shit????????

please, next joke

[Defekted]

Reagan was right he prevailed son ..

Venezula, Ecuador, Bolivia, Argentina, Nicaragua all leftist .... with chile, uruguay, and brazil left of center....


next joke.

[admin]

Well Georgia sent troops in for us to iraq.. El salvador fought russian backed commies Reagan was right!!! ..I dont want to send troops in i want to support gerogia with arms the way putin supported sadaam and the way he arming Chavez .. nothing wrong with helping countries who sacrificed for us ..if not we are not honorable

I don't believe we are getting involved because they send 2000 troops. We been sending weapons along with aid to Georgia since 2002 because US has interests there, mostly oil.
US is using Georgia as a puppet for the U'S own's interest. There is a major oil pipeline going though that region, US doesn't want Russia to have control of that pipeline.

If the US hadn't armed the Georgians, Georgia would have signed the peace treaty with Russia, the status quo would have been maintained, and all this loss of life could have been averted.

[jameznyhc]

This is far from the point that bosnia was at and I would rather EXHAUST ALL AVENUES before the first gun is fired........ I agree that the force that Russia is fighting is disproporationate, just like Israel on Lebanon, just like almost every other incident where there is a disputed land, an "adventurous" action by the weaker, and a rediculously harder response from the power.....

its a tale as old as time......

enough with the wars man...... this can be stopped with an internationally driven effort to stop it..... Russia still wants a seat at the table when it comes to world decisions.....

the problem here is our leverage is almost zero since our cowboy chimp of a president did what he did in Iraq.... i mean if we can fucking wipe out a country with just the "image" of a threat and without a single rifle fired, you think we have a single leg to stand on to tell russia shit????????

please, next joke

so why not criticize it like Bush, brown and sarkozy are doing before it becomes a kosovo ..why is russia now pushing into georgia and ignoring the ceasefire.. cause putin is kgb ..mccain was right about him

[jameznyhc]

I don't believe we are getting involved because they send 2000 troops. We been sending weapons along with aid to Georgia since 2002 because US has interests there, mostly oil.
US is using Georgia as a puppet for the U'S own's interest. There is a major oil pipeline going though that region, US doesn't want Russia to have control of that pipeline.

If the US hadn't armed the Georgians, Georgia would have signed the peace treaty with Russia, the status quo would have been maintained, and all this loss of life could have been averted.

we send them weapons to protect them from russia lol .. we have every right too .. they stepped up in iraq and have a tiny military ..they could have said fuck you to us like spain did

[admin]

we send them weapons to protect them from russia lol .. we have every right too .. they stepped up in iraq and have a tiny military ..they could have said fuck you to us like spain did

Hey BCC reported that people in Georgia actually thought US would send troops.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7552358.stm

and many of them are angry at US.

"Many people can't understand why the West failed to protect us," said Sandro, a student in Tbilisi.
"America was seen as an ally, and Georgian soldiers have been dying in Iraq in the interests of global security. But the West has shown that it doesn't care about Russia invading other countries."
"All they did was express 'concerns' while bombs were falling on us," added Shalva, his friend."


No matter what we do we still come out the bad guy, lol.

btw whats the population of Georgia?